Originally posted by Konton
Uh, Laura isn't putting down Mystique IMO. Logan was barely able to walk away when they last fought each other. Mystique's title series gave her a huge skill/damage soak boost.
But your right she has high level damage soak and is very skilled.
Originally posted by Q99did cass also get thrown off by Slade as well?
But her shapeshifting was much higher level than Mystique's, and she had the jump on Cass, and the only reason she won was Monseur Mallah as backup. Cass was still learning to read her during the fight before watching the videos.After the videos, now she has experience reading the skillful Madame Rouge too.
But unless and until Mystique makes major changes, Cass's reading and skills will help her on the defense (and Cain's definitely faster in any case), and she'll know to look for how Mystique is using her shifting due to having seen other shifters in play and knowing what to look for.
Cassandra's not likely to get injured fast knowing she's a shapeshifter, and after a few exchanges she should have Mystique's number on where she's hiding her organs and such and go right for them.
i think there is a legitimate precedence that she would be unable to read Mystique with the above mention especially if we add her fight with Mad Dog.
If we look at what mystique brings to the table it is an uphill battle for cass.. Mystique has complete control of her body, does that sound like someone we know?
she is just as skilled at reading individuals able to tell when some one is being controlled or acting out of the norm..
she is also a highly skilled fighter who carries weapons.. i see this seriously locking mystique the majority of the win
Originally posted by King Castle
did cass also get thrown off by Slade as well?
Not exactly. He was hard to read (she uses a song analogy- he moves like a 'choir'😉, but she was able to dodge his stuff (point in fact, he's never scored a clear hit without using a trick). Tricky because he was throwing out a lot of readable information, in other words.
Gemini's shapeshifting attacks were something she didn't know at first, as was Monseur Mallah due to being a gorilla, but she learned them both.
If someone can't be 'read,' that just puts her at "skilled fighter with incredible reflexes who can see them coming," level. It's not crippling.
i think there is a legitimate precedence that she would be unable to read Mystique with the above mention especially if we add her fight with Mad Dog.
She could read Mad Dog. The trouble in that fight was pure exhaustion.
If she has trouble *at first*, she'll pick Mystique up pretty fast. Cass did thought-bubble that she was picking up Gemini's weak points as they fought the first time.
she is just as skilled at reading individuals able to tell when some one is being controlled or acting out of the norm..
Ms. Cain's borders on telepathy, really. She can tell what people are thinking by looking at them. Knew a guy was thinking suicide by the look he had. Knows what it's like to die by watching someone die.
she is also a highly skilled fighter who carries weapons.. i see this seriously locking mystique the majority of the win
Cassandra uses her batarangs fairly often, especially against metahuman targets, not exactly unarmed only herself.
Originally posted by TazerMaybe her average prior to her powerup that completely amped and altered her powerset... since that point in time, however, her title series and subsequent fights against Wolverine have done a lot to set the "avg".
Yo.yea, but we dont judge fights based ONLY on the "most recent showings, do we? I always thought we went by "averages"..........and to me Ravens "avg" is much lower than Cass's.
Tazer
Mystique's damage soak is currently ridiculous. She's been running fast enough to keep up with helicopters, strong enough to kick down massive metal (steel? titanium? whatever) doors, with ability to amp her strength further, increase her limbs and constantly change enough aspects of her body to keep Cassie's body-reading-talent on its toes.
She's physically powerful enough and a skilled enough fighter to end this with a couple blows, and I don't see Cassie putting her down before that happens.
Yo.
Originally posted by Existere
Maybe her average prior to her powerup that completely amped and altered her powerset... since that point in time, however, her title series and subsequent fights against Wolverine have done a lot to set the "avg".Mystique's damage soak is currently ridiculous. She's been running fast enough to keep up with helicopters, strong enough to kick down massive metal (steel? titanium? whatever) doors, with ability to amp her strength further, increase her limbs and constantly change enough aspects of her body to keep Cassie's body-reading-talent on its toes.
She's physically powerful enough and a skilled enough fighter to end this with a couple blows, and I don't see Cassie putting her down before that happens.
not to discount any upgrades shes had, but her current pwr-lvl gets added to her overall performance/showings -avg, but it doesnt outright replace it.
Tazer
Originally posted by TazerIt certainly holds more weight. Given that she's now stronger and faster, situations prior in which skill alone couldn't help her are now less relevant. She can now both move fast enough to counter a certain punch, and use her skill to do it effectively.
Yo.not to discount any upgrades shes had, but her current pwr-lvl gets added to her overall performance/showings -avg, but it doesnt outright replace it.
Tazer
Anyways, you're free to actually use examples to back up your argument, because currently I'm just guessing at what you would argue and need deconstructed.
Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.not to discount any upgrades shes had, but her current pwr-lvl gets added to her overall performance/showings -avg, but it doesnt outright replace it.
Tazer
This isn't even a fight. Once when Raven was impersonating Wolverine she had half a dozen bullet wounds visible on her face and she kept going like it was nothing, her damage soak is simple insurmountable for someone of Batgirl's caliber. There is a reason why Osborn brought several hundred soldiers, tanks and helicopters with him to taker her down by force... and there is a reason Mystique said he would have needed more men. Raven is on a completely different level than Cassandra Cain.
Originally posted by srankmissingninWas that a dark reign story? What's the name of the book?
This isn't even a fight. Once when Raven was impersonating Wolverine she had half a dozen bullet wounds visible on her face and she kept going like it was nothing, her damage soak is simple insurmountable for someone of Batgirl's caliber. There is a reason why Osborn brought several hundred soldiers, tanks and helicopters with him to taker her down by force... and there is a reason Mystique said he would have needed more men. Raven is on a completely different level than Cassandra Cain.