"In the zone" Anakin VS Kenobi
ROTS, Mustafar.
Anakin in in the zone, the same way he was when he killed Dooku after Dooku had defeated Obi-Wan.
Remember, Obi-Wan knew Anakin's moves inside and out, due to their years of training.
ALSO, remember, that Anakin knew Obi-Wan's moves inside and out, due to their years of training. (Keep in mind always, two-way street)
Double-edged sword, my friends.
Obviously this is an all-out fight.
And the victor?
I'll go out on a limb...
...And say, that Anakin ends up retaining all his limbs. 😉
We do however, see Obi-Wan, slide to the bottom of the hill, possibly missing limbs of his own, how beard and hair burning off, screaming in agony, rasping, "I should have won.." "I have should have..GAAAAHHHH...IIIIOOOOOOO..."
Pity. Seeing as how Obi-Wan's clothes resemble cotton and wool, which contain far more oxygen then Anakin's clothes - Obi-Wan's clothes wouldn't just melt off, they'd burn so quickly and intensely that he would actually resemble a human torch.
Yes, unfortunately you see, Writer's Fiot wouldn't make an excuse for Obi-Wan to win the duel - Anakin would win it simply because he is slightly more skilled and more powerful, as he actually is, and so would win.
Originally posted by Ketoshifter
I buy that a focused ani could take down obi it would be legit tho thats for sure
Obi-Wan's victory at Mustafar was legit in a sense that he ultimately was the better fighter.
I get that you mean that Kenobi didn't fight "the best version" of Anakin, and if he did things might have turned out differently. Well, that's just life.
Lucas said that Obi-Wan ultimately had more experience, but that doesn't translate to "being a better fighter". And I know the novel doesn't contradict that; Obi-Wan only manages to survive against Vader for as long as he did becuase of his experience, but pretty much the entire fight, Kenobi was at a disadvantage and being pushed back.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
but pretty much the entire fight, Kenobi was at a disadvantage and being pushed back.
Lucien, actually, "With every exchange, Obi-Wan gave ground, it was his way."
And then he controlled the location of the entire fight. I agree with most of your argument, just not your last sentence.
Originally posted by truejediWoah woah woah--we are not doing this again. I remember about... half a year ago(ish), I decided to qualify that stance of yours and discovered in the novel that Obi-Wan had very little advantage or foresight in that duel. Giving ground is not the same as controlling the fight's direction. Anakin was beating him back and came close to killing him a few times. Obi was just scraping by.
Lucien, actually, "With every exchange, Obi-Wan gave ground, it was his way."And then he controlled the location of the entire fight. I agree with most of your argument, just not your last sentence.
Please, please! don't make me go digging through that chapter again.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Woah woah woah--we are not doing this again. I remember about... half a year ago(ish), I decided to qualify that stance of yours and discovered in the novel that Obi-Wan had very little advantage or foresight in that duel. Giving ground is not the same as controlling the fight's direction. Anakin was beating him back and came close to killing him a few times. Obi was just scraping by.Please, please! don't make me go digging through that chapter again.
you tried for a very long time to weasel around the very clear text, i do remember that. You never actually did though, the novel is pretty clear.
Originally posted by truejediI just read through it again. It's shorter than I remember. Anakin was winning every step of the way until Kenobi reversed his mechanical hand. Anakin recovered from that in time to almost break Obi's wrists. And then Obi decides they should both go out in to the lava. And then he thinks Anakin dies. And then he tricked Anakin at the end by jumping past him.
you tried for a very long time to weasel around the very clear text, i do remember that. You never actually did though, the novel is pretty clear.
That's where Kenobi won and had the advantage. The rest of the duel, Anakin was kicking his ass.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I just read through it again. It's shorter than I remember. Anakin was winning every step of the way until Kenobi reversed his mechanical hand. Anakin recovered from that in time to almost break Obi's wrists. And then Obi decides they should both go out in to the lava. And then he thinks Anakin dies. And then he tricked Anakin at the end by jumping past him.That's where Kenobi won and had the advantage. The rest of the duel, Anakin was kicking his ass.
That' true. Anakin was pushing Obi-Wan back, but was the outcome of their duel was pretty much undecided till the end.
I always thought of that fight as a kind of "Rocky Balboa" thing Obi-Wan pulled. He was pushed back, sure. Took a lot of beating, sure. But in the end he got the job done.
That’s what I meant by saying that Kenobi "ultimately was the better fighter".
Of course it’s just my biased point of view.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I just read through it again. It's shorter than I remember. Anakin was winning every step of the way until Kenobi reversed his mechanical hand. Anakin recovered from that in time to almost break Obi's wrists. And then Obi decides they should both go out in to the lava. And then he thinks Anakin dies. And then he tricked Anakin at the end by jumping past him.That's where Kenobi won and had the advantage. The rest of the duel, Anakin was kicking his ass.
onscreen it appears that way, sure. but in the novel it tells a different tale.
My point isn't what the ultimate result was. It's the misconception that Obi-Wan was "controlling" or "leading" the fight, as if it were a dance. The film shows him simply reacting to Anakin's onslaught, which he did. But not with some foresight or greater plan driving him. The novel states that outside was where they should go, as the Force told him or whatever.
That's about it. It's all from Kenobi's perspective and he has two epiphanies throughout--one about how much he love Anakin and the other about letting go. But during the actual combat, Anakin was very clearly the dominant force. He was manipulating, aiming, and pulling the triggers of the rifles of the soldiers he'd killed. Obi-Wan just barely caught the bolts and sent them back at Anakin (an act of "desperation"😉, and Anakin easily, "contemptuously" deflected them. He was sent hurling in to the far wall with a Force push (and only survived because of his "one last trick"😉 and then proceeded to be manhandled by Anakin, who almost broke his arms off.
Combat-wise that's where all the specific stuff stops. It become a general narrative of the outdoor scene, with neither holding any advantage. The last part has Obi-Wan spear-diving at Anakin, who easily dodges it and curses that he let Obi-Wan trick him in to reaching the shoreline.
The duel is comparatively one-sided. Obi-Wan would have died very early on if Anakin was his lucid "z0ne" self. He wasn't "directing" the fight, he was simply reacting to opportune moments (he seems to excel at that). But straight out combat? Nuh uh. RotS Vader>>Obi-Wan.
That's the novel's narrative anyway. It doesn't include the Force-stalemate and has far more pro-Anakin fight scenes. The movie displays a more even duel. So what do we pick? The extrapolated narrative, or the more-open-to-interpretation-but-higher-canon-movie?