Originally posted by Deadline
Thats pretty reasonable but I still think he can get a small majority h2h. Hes already had an 'upgrade' 😬
I can't fault you for that. Shiva's reputation is precarious at best, other than some flimsy retcon's of her wrecking a mind controlled BT and League of Assassins, her legacy is largely hearsay and circular logic.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I can't fault you for that. Shiva's reputation is precarious at best, other than some flimsy retcon's of her wrecking a mind controlled BT and League of Assassins, her legacy is largely hearsay and circular logic.
She killed Katana in a pretty one-sided battle. She wrecked Shadowdragon, who gave Superman fits. She trained Batman and was his acknowledged superior in HtH. In the latest Richard Dragon mini, she killed Dragon, as well as easily killed a collection of martial artists who were giving Nightwing, Bronze Tiger, and Dragon major trouble. She took down Connor Hawke in their famous battle. She killed Catwoman's master easily, and beat Catwoman with one hand casually. Has a habit of owning Nightwing. Also the Question's gotten his tail handed to him by her more than once. Shatters Killer Croc's bones so fast he doesn't know what's going on.
You seem to underestimate DC's martial artists in general.
Originally posted by Q99
She killed Katana in a pretty one-sided battle. She wrecked Shadowdragon, who gave Superman fits. She trained Batman and was his acknowledged superior in HtH. In the latest Richard Dragon mini, she killed Dragon, as well as easily killed a collection of martial artists who were giving Nightwing, Bronze Tiger, and Dragon major trouble. She took down Connor Hawke in their famous battle. She killed Catwoman's master easily, and beat Catwoman with one hand casually. Has a habit of owning Nightwing. Also the Question's gotten his tail handed to him by her more than once. Shatters Killer Croc's bones so fast he doesn't know what's going on.You seem to underestimate DC's martial artists in general.
Katana also came back and stalemated her, and Katana is a C-List fighter. That's like bragging about beating Shatterstar... only Shatterstar is also superhuman across the board, so that holds more weight.
Shadow Dragon was stated to be faster than Superman. Either Superman jobbed to him, or he jobbed to Shiva.
She re-trained Batman after Knightfall when he lost his skills, she was never acknowledge as being superior but it was said she "might" be.
Chuck Dixon's Richard Dragon series doesn't fit into continuity.
Other than hold his own against Shiva, what has Connor done? He beat Silver Monkey who was allegedly "second to Shiva," but had never done anything.
She killed the Armless Master... awesome?
Catwoman is even lower on the rung of fighters than Katana.
She hasn't fought Nightwing in years, he used to be pretty much useless. He couldn't even touch Bruce in a fight unless he was allowed.
The events in Batgirl recton'd Shiva's history with Dragon, Tiger and the Question, and Vic was never close to Batman level to begin with. Also she couldn't compete with Black Lantern Question in h2h even with Renee's help.
She did break Crocs arm before he could notice, but it's not like Croc is the Lizard or anything. He has barely superhuman strength and his durability is inconstant.
Originally posted by srankmissingninSo, basically, Ogun losing to Wolverine is supposed to place him at the highest levels of martial artists...
Ogun was established as being superior to Wolverine, he worked Logan over pretty effortlessly and only lost eventually due to Wolverine's healing factor and berserker rage. That's not hearsay or circular logic... it's fact.
... while Shiva matching/beating all sorts of skilled foes is supposed to place her below the highest level of martial artists.
The events in Batgirl recton'd Shiva's history with Dragon, Tiger and the Question, and Vic was never close to Batman level to begin with.
They were supposed to take place before said events, and BN Question establishes the history is still in place.
She did break Crocs arm before he could notice, but it's not like Croc is the Lizard or anything. He has barely superhuman strength and his durability is inconstant.
Both of his legs (one comminuted, i.e. where the bone has been broken into multiple places) and one arm.
Anyway, it's pretty clear your standards are well of the double variety.