Final Destination Vol.2 Sephiroth X Link

Started by The Scenario11 pages

That line of thinking leads to such things as Supernova being considered a real supernova, Sonic moving lightspeed in base form, and Samus having handheld weapons more powerful than nukes. It leads to Mario with a star surviving the big bang because he's "invincible." Heck, I could claim that Link can't be defeated ever since King Hyrule wished on the (omnipotent) Triforce for Link "to have a future" and him dying would defy the Triforce's will.

Hyberbole is just that: exaggerating to make a point. Trust me, it's not a road you want to go down.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
[B]Nothing about being trapped in TK stops him from using his arms.

Uh- yeah it does. If Sephiroth can lfit his whole body into the air and throw it around, what's stopping him from keeping his arms above his head, or pressed against his temples? What's stopping him from just turning him around so Link isn't even facing him? Nothing.

Originally posted by The Scenario
That line of thinking leads to such things as Supernova being considered a real supernova, Sonic moving lightspeed in base form, and Samus having handheld weapons more powerful than nukes. It leads to Mario with a star surviving the big bang because he's "invincible." Heck, I could claim that Link can't be defeated ever since King Hyrule wished on the (omnipotent) Triforce for Link "to have a future" and him dying would defy the Triforce's will.

Hyberbole is just that: exaggerating to make a point. Trust me, it's not a road you want to go down.

But, Supernova has been stated to have the power of an exploding star, it is a canonical ability that he has in all games he is canonically in, in some form. According to the rules here and sense he has this magic, as well as others.

Being defeated is not the same as being dead.

You can't compare no limit fallacies to the abilities I am talking about either, as the game specifically states the limits. Near-instant and light-speed.

These aren't characters exaggerating another characters abilities, these are just what the abilities are according to the developers.

But how do you know it's exaggeration when the in-game and cut-scene move mimics the explanation (Obviously having the damage scaled for balance, especially in a fighting game)?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkoAmGYhzpk

Uh- yeah it does. If Sephiroth can lfit his whole body into the air and throw it around, what's stopping him from keeping his arms above his head, or pressed against his temples?
Link's own strength and the fact he can act faster.
What's stopping him from just turning him around so Link isn't even facing him? Nothing.
A shield to the face before he can.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
[B]Link's own strength and the fact he can act faster.

Link's strength is useless in mid-air.

A shield to the face before he can.

How's he going to throw a shield backwards while being fought constantly by TK?

Link's strength is useless in mid-air.
His arm is anchored to his shoulder, so, not so much.
How's he going to throw a shield backwards while being fought constantly by TK?

Backhanded and without any resistance since Sephiroth won't have time to think. Or even turn him around.

Proof he can move faster than Sephiroth can think...or even move please.

Originally posted by K1ll3r
But, Supernova has been stated to have the power of an exploding star, it is a canonical ability that he has in all games he is canonically in, in some form. According to the rules here and sense he has this magic, as well as others.

Yet according to visuals it destroys the solar system every time it's used. It's inconsistent with everything ever shown in any Final Fantasy game. If Sephiroth has such power, he does need Meteor to wound a planet if he's got the power of an exploding star. Heck, traveling at a fraction of light speed and simply ramming the planet would do more than meteor did. It's clear from visuals, plot, and everything else that Supernova is a powerful spell, but obviously not a real supernova.


Being defeated is not the same as being dead.

As far as this thread is concerned it's a fight to the death.


You can't compare no limit fallacies to the abilities I am talking about either, as the game specifically states the limits. Near-instant and light-speed.

But the thing is...they're not no limits fallacies. Sonic has an attack (literally named the "Light Speed attack"😉 that is described as moving at light speed. Visuals and plot do not confirm this.

Samus canonically grew up on a planet with 850 times the mass of Earth, and corresponding gravity. Her weapons also have numbers that put them at energy levels that could destroy cities. Nothing in the games really indicates this.

Mario legitimately is a no limits fallacy, though.


These aren't characters exaggerating another characters abilities, these are just what the abilities are according to the developers.

But how do you know it's exaggeration when the in-game and cut-scene move mimics the explanation (Obviously having the damage scaled for balance, especially in a fighting game)?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkoAmGYhzpk

It's more along the lines of the developers exaggerating or else not knowing what those numbers mean. Do you have any idea how fast lightspeed is? Because that little clip you showed is demonstrably not even close. An object moving at light speed has enough energy to put noticeable craters through the planet. What that attack should look like is Sephiroth standing there one nanosecond, then a massive explosion engulfing everything in a significant radius while Sephiroth circles the planet 50 times for the lulz. I would pay to see that one.

As it stands, however, it looks like the developers just wanted to get across the fact that Sephiroth was fast, and picked the biggest number they could think of without really knowing what the consequences of something that powerful would be. That kind of thing is depressingly common in fiction.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Yet according to visuals it destroys the solar system every time it's used. It's inconsistent with everything ever shown in any Final Fantasy game. If Sephiroth has such power, he does need Meteor to wound a planet if he's got the power of an exploding star. Heck, traveling at a fraction of light speed and simply ramming the planet would do more than meteor did. It's clear from visuals, plot, and everything else that Supernova is a powerful spell, but obviously not a real supernova.

How is that inconsistent? We can attribute that to the fact that Sephiroth NEVER used it outside of game play. I am going to assume you meant not need it, however using Supernova would do MORE damage than he wanted compared to Meteor. Pre-ACC Sephiroth doesn't have a light-speed ability.

From visuals it is as powerful as a real supernova, in every aspect we have seen it, it is literally the sun exploding. The plot, well he never wanted to destroy the planet, let alone the solar system.

Originally posted by The Scenario
As far as this thread is concerned it's a fight to the death.

Is it? I thought if a fighter is incapable of continuing he loses, otherwise Sephiroth could just continually regenerate himself, he can't really die unless you destroy his will, I mean he took over the body of another being when he was 'flesh' (Falling into the Life-stream).

Originally posted by The Scenario
But the thing is...they're not no limits fallacies. Sonic has an attack (literally named the "Light Speed attack"😉 that is described as moving at light speed. Visuals and plot do not confirm this.

Mmm, does plot need to confirm it? Plot, especially in games usually does not match up to any ability a character has. Look at Kratos, at one point he stops a massive dudes hands crushing him and another point he has trouble keeping a normal human in a hold and smashing his face barely does any damage. Do visuals need to confirm it if the people who make the plot, who form the canonical universe say it is? How can you determine that it wasn't supposed to be taken literally?

Originally posted by The Scenario
Samus canonically grew up on a planet with 850 times the mass of Earth, and corresponding gravity. Her weapons also have numbers that put them at energy levels that could destroy cities. Nothing in the games really indicates this.

I fail to see how the game needs to indicate it.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Mario legitimately is a no limits fallacy, though.

I was also referring to Triforce.

Originally posted by The Scenario
It's more along the lines of the developers exaggerating or else not knowing what those numbers mean. Do you have any idea how fast lightspeed is? Because that little clip you showed is demonstrably not even close. An object moving at light speed has enough energy to put noticeable craters through the planet. What that attack should look like is Sephiroth standing there one nanosecond, then a massive explosion engulfing everything in a significant radius while Sephiroth circles the planet 50 times for the lulz. I would pay to see that one.

"Developers exaggerating" could then also be applied to cut-scenes. Lol, look at the clip again...Look at the point where it looks slowed down by about half. You can't even see Sephiroth move. You can't tell where one attack begins and the other ends. Light is still reflecting off his blade when he has already made an attack elsewhere. The only way they could have re-inforced it is to obliterate Cloud because of the force imparted on him, or maybe knock him xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx of kms away which would break the plot and they couldn't do that this doesn't mean he doesn't have the ability that is stated to move at light-speed or that it is slower than stated.

Originally posted by The Scenario
As far as this thread is concerned it's a fight to the death.

Is it? I thought if a fighter was unable to fight he loses, otherwise Sephiroth could just continually regenerate himself or even take over another body, or create another body.

Originally posted by The Scenario
But the thing is...they're not no limits fallacies. Sonic has an attack (literally named the "Light Speed attack"😉 that is described as moving at light speed. Visuals and plot do not confirm this.

This is implying an abilities name will always denote what the ability is.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Samus canonically grew up on a planet with 850 times the mass of Earth, and corresponding gravity. Her weapons also have numbers that put them at energy levels that could destroy cities. Nothing in the games really indicates this.

I don't understand how either of those things conflicts with anything in Metroid.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Mario legitimately is a no limits fallacy, though.

I was also referring to Triforce as well. (Saying nothing can defeat the power or wish of the Triforce is a no-limits fallacy)

Originally posted by The Scenario
As it stands, however, it looks like the developers just wanted to get across the fact that Sephiroth was fast, and picked the biggest number they could think of without really knowing what the consequences of something that powerful would be. That kind of thing is depressingly common in fiction.

Lol, you could also use this as "The developers just wanted the scene to look cool, even though the character can't take 10000s of tonnes of force on their legs". Which can then be applied to...almost anything.

It is true, developers (ESPECIALLY ARTISTS) don't sit down and go, okay this is how powerful we are REALLY making this character when this cut-scene takes place *does up maths*, but when they sit down and go this attack is light-speed, they are, literally that is what they did while writing or revising the design doc! Making a statement about an ability is more true than a cut-scene in this regard.

Sephiroth used Supernova twice on me. And it destroyed the exact same things twice...

Bahaha silly fanboys, weed is for high school students.

Originally posted by K1ll3r
[B]How is that inconsistent? We can attribute that to the fact that Sephiroth NEVER used it outside of game play. I am going to assume you meant not need it, however using Supernova would do MORE damage than he wanted compared to Meteor. Pre-ACC Sephiroth doesn't have a light-speed ability.

From visuals it is as powerful as a real supernova, in every aspect we have seen it, it is literally the sun exploding. The plot, well he never wanted to destroy the planet, let alone the solar system.

By visuals, it destroys the solar system multiple times. He uses it once, solar system destroyed, then he uses it again, and the solar system is magically back only to be destroyed again? The fact that they return each animation just indicates they were never really destroyed. Not to mention it visibly covers earth or midgar or whatever, and very clearly does not destroy it, when everything about it says it should. The planet is literally placed inside the star, and you expect me to believe this is a representation of what is actually happening?

No, Supernova is a powerful spell, but clearly not as strong as you want it to be. The fact that Sephiroth never uses it indicates it's not as useful as something like that would be. By plot, more damage would equal more lifestream, right? So there's no point in Meteor slowly plodding along when Supernova can cause a hell of lot more damage much more quickly.


Is it? I thought if a fighter is incapable of continuing he loses, otherwise Sephiroth could just continually regenerate himself, he can't really die unless you destroy his will, I mean he took over the body of another being when he was 'flesh' (Falling into the Life-stream).

Is it? I thought if a fighter was unable to fight he loses, otherwise Sephiroth could just continually regenerate himself or even take over another body, or create another body.

True, but that was just another example which I didn't intend seriously.


Mmm, does plot need to confirm it? Plot, especially in games usually does not match up to any ability a character has. Look at Kratos, at one point he stops a massive dudes hands crushing him and another point he has trouble keeping a normal human in a hold and smashing his face barely does any damage. Do visuals need to confirm it if the people who make the plot, who form the canonical universe say it is? How can you determine that it wasn't supposed to be taken literally?

This is implying an abilities name will always denote what the ability is.

If plot does not confirm it, it either means the character is an absolute moron for not using it, or somehow is unable to. It'd be better to go with the one that makes a given character not dumb, unless they canonically are. I know little about Kratos, but the latter sounds like he's just messing with the guy. Visuals should hold with descriptions given, and if they differ should go with the one overall more consistent with the character.

As for names implying the nature of the ability, it is the exact same thing for Sephiroth and Supernova. You might have had a point if the move's description didn't also say it was light speed, but alas. Are you going to accept a given description when visuals and plot blatantly show it to be false?


I fail to see how the game needs to indicate it.

I don't understand how either of those things conflicts with anything in Metroid.

For one thing, that gravity would make Samus physically stronger than Freiza Saga Goku, and her weaponry does not, in fact, destroy a city every time she fires her arm cannon. It conflicts with all of Samus' shown feats and is ridiculously inconsistent with everything else in Metroid. I would love it if every shot Samus made put a sizable dent in a planet or she could overpower Kratos, but she does not, and an inconsistent description won't change that.


I was also referring to Triforce.

I was also referring to Triforce as well. (Saying nothing can defeat the power or wish of the Triforce is a no-limits fallacy)

Unless it is actually described as omnipotent, which it is. That's what omnipotent means: all powerful; can do all. The Triforce is actually stated in game to be both omnipotent and omniscient (all knowing.)

Which, as you kindly pointed out, is yet another example of my point. The Triforce is described as omnipotent, legitimately giving it a free pass for that fallacy, since the description outright states it has no limits. But you don't like that. Why?

Would it be because the description and visual showings of the Triforce don't match up? That's sounds a bit like Sephiroth, now doesn't it? The description says one thing (omnipotent) but the visuals, plot, and everything else show this to be false. Again, reminds you of Sephiroth's descriptions and visuals/plot not matching up, doesn't it?


"Developers exaggerating" could then also be applied to cut-scenes. Lol, look at the clip again...Look at the point where it looks slowed down by about half. You can't even see Sephiroth move. You can't tell where one attack begins and the other ends. Light is still reflecting off his blade when he has already made an attack elsewhere. The only way they could have re-inforced it is to obliterate Cloud because of the force imparted on him, or maybe knock him xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx of kms away which would break the plot and they couldn't do that this doesn't mean he doesn't have the ability that is stated to move at light-speed or that it is slower than stated.

Lol, you could also use this as "The developers just wanted the scene to look cool, even though the character can't take 10000s of tonnes of force on their legs". Which can then be applied to...almost anything.

It is true, developers (ESPECIALLY ARTISTS) don't sit down and go, okay this is how powerful we are REALLY making this character when this cut-scene takes place *does up maths*, but when they sit down and go this attack is light-speed, they are, literally that is what they did while writing or revising the design doc! Making a statement about an ability is more true than a cut-scene in this regard.

I'm sorry, I was reading your post, but I was distracted by something amazing. Did you just say that we can see "light reflecting off of Sephiroth's blade" during an argument for why Sephiroth moves at the same speed light does? There's a multitude of reasons why that just doesn't work. Not the least of which being that light is hitting him in the first place, so Sephiroth shouldn't even be visible there unless he's slow enough for light to hit him, then reflect back to our eyes. Even if he appears to be in two places at once, you don't need to be light speed to do that. Heck, you don't really need to be faster than sound for afterimages to appear.

But in any case, what exactly are you arguing for Sephiroth? He can move at light speed, but evidently for only one specific attack that Cloud can block by holding his sword in front of him? You tried to argue that Sephiroth had to be durable to take moving at that speed, but where is the durability shown? They might show it by everything exploding as even fractions of light will do that, but they didn't. I believe rule 14 says that characters use their abilities "as they are presented." So...where is this stuff presented? Where does it show Sephiroth as durable because he can move at that speed? Where is it presented that Sephiroth will use this speed (he's never shown anywhere else) except for during that one attack that just hits around a character? Argue what you want, but as it stands, Sephiroth has only shown that rather pathetic display.

Which would, of course, make him an idiot since he doesn't use it all the time. Or, in respect to his character as a thinking individual, he is simply unable to use something that would have been so useful as to break the plot. Rather than try to make excuses, just go with the simple answer. The devs wanted him to be fast, so they picked a buzzword for fast: lightspeed. The devs wanted Sonic to be fast, so they picked a buzzword: lightspeed. The devs wanted Zebes to be big or Samus' weapons to sound strong, so they picked arbitrarily high numbers.

They're all the same exact thing. A lack of scale or scientific knowledge in an artist. We can't fault them for that, but if what is shown or told doesn't match the character or otherwise doesn't work, don't try to shoehorn physics into it. The devs wanted Sephiroth to have a fast attack that hit multiple times, so it's the same thing here. It is demonstrably not the planet wrecking fireball it should be, nor is it a durability feat for Sephiroth. It's just a fast attack that hits multiple times.

Maybe Sephiroth does destroy everything in the Solar System then uses willpower to will the whole thing back to repeat the process. mmm Like, OmniWill.

Originally posted by The Scenario
By visuals, it destroys the solar system multiple times. He uses it once, solar system destroyed, then he uses it again, and the solar system is magically back only to be destroyed again? The fact that they return each animation just indicates they were never really destroyed. Not to mention it visibly covers earth or midgar or whatever, and very clearly does not destroy it, when everything about it says it should. The planet is literally placed inside the star, and you expect me to believe this is a representation of what is actually happening?

Lol, Gameplay. Sephiroth still needs to be balanced in game play so that the player can win. Sephiroth hasn't used it canonically, however according to visuals of the attack and statements, it has the power of an expanding star.

Originally posted by The Scenario
No, Supernova is a powerful spell, but clearly not as strong as you want it to be. The fact that Sephiroth never uses it indicates it's not as useful as something like that would be. By plot, more damage would equal more lifestream, right? So there's no point in Meteor slowly plodding along when Supernova can cause a hell of lot more damage much more quickly.

No, it just means using it won't further the goals Sephiroth has AND I never said it had the power of an expanding star, I have always been paraphrasing from the CCCG. Lol are you implying that The Lifestream would still be there after Supernova? I used to think, before this statement from the CCCG that Supernova utilised Sephiroths ability for illusions and was a powerful magical attack but couldn't destroy the solar system.

Originally posted by The Scenario
True, but that was just another example which I didn't intend seriously.

What?

Originally posted by The Scenario
If plot does not confirm it, it either means the character is an absolute moron for not using it, or somehow is unable to.

Or just bad writing. Or they don't want to use it, due to 'not trying'.

Originally posted by The Scenario
It'd be better to go with the one that makes a given character not dumb, unless they canonically are. I know little about Kratos, but the latter sounds like he's just messing with the guy. Visuals should hold with descriptions given, and if they differ should go with the one overall more consistent with the character.

If he really was that strong a person a normal guy would have 0 chance of moving against his strength. I thought Kratos never messed around (According to his debaters)?

Originally posted by The Scenario
As for names implying the nature of the ability, it is the exact same thing for Sephiroth and Supernova. You might have had a point if the move's description didn't also say it was light speed, but alas. Are you going to accept a given description when visuals and plot blatantly show it to be false?

Fair point is fair.

Originally posted by The Scenario
For one thing, that gravity would make Samus physically stronger than Freiza Saga Goku, and her weaponry does not, in fact, destroy a city every time she fires her arm cannon. It conflicts with all of Samus' shown feats and is ridiculously inconsistent with everything else in Metroid. I would love it if every shot Samus made put a sizable dent in a planet or she could overpower Kratos, but she does not, and an inconsistent description won't change that.

Have the creators of Metroid stated we have never seen Samus use her full power? Because the creators of Sephiroth have. Your example does not apply here.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Unless it is actually described as omnipotent, which it is. That's what omnipotent means: all powerful; can do all. The Triforce is actually stated in game to be both omnipotent and omniscient (all knowing.)

Whoa, statements.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Which, as you kindly pointed out, is yet another example of my point. The Triforce is described as omnipotent, legitimately giving it a free pass for that fallacy, since the description outright states it has no limits. But you don't like that. Why?

These are different, Sephiroths gives a specific limit. For these to be the same Sephiroths would need to be: Faster than everything movement. Making it a no-limits fallacy.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Would it be because the description and visual showings of the Triforce don't match up? That's sounds a bit like Sephiroth, now doesn't it? The description says one thing (omnipotent) but the visuals, plot, and everything else show this to be false. Again, reminds you of Sephiroth's descriptions and visuals/plot not matching up, doesn't it?

Except one is no-limits, the other has a limit. Taking into account the artists not understanding the implication and numbers of light-speed can easily be the reason for that. How does it not match up in the plot?

Originally posted by The Scenario
I'm sorry, I was reading your post, but I was distracted by something amazing. Did you just say that we can see "light reflecting off of Sephiroth's blade" during an argument for why Sephiroth moves at the same speed light does? There's a multitude of reasons why that just doesn't work. Not the least of which being that light is hitting him in the first place, so Sephiroth shouldn't even be visible there unless he's slow enough for light to hit him, then reflect back to our eyes. Even if he appears to be in two places at once, you don't need to be light speed to do that. Heck, you don't really need to be faster than sound for afterimages to appear.

They aren't even afterimages though, you just don't see him move. He doesn't appear in two places at once..the part where it is slowed down by what appears to be half (on top of the original slowing down) and he at least HAS been in five different places at once, add on attacks that aren't on angles to be reflected so nicely...

Also, who says the light is hitting him, he may be hitting the light. Give your multitude of reasons please, obviously with as much proof as you can.

Originally posted by The Scenario
But in any case, what exactly are you arguing for Sephiroth? He can move at light speed, but evidently for only one specific attack

Yes.

Originally posted by The Scenario
that Cloud can block by holding his sword in front of him?

Which can be attributed to, artists not knowing what the numbers mean. Or if you want, means Cloud can take light-speed attacks.

Originally posted by The Scenario
You tried to argue that Sephiroth had to be durable to take moving at that speed, but where is the durability shown?

Well the fact that while his body was inside a meteor, and it hit a planet while his body was still inside of it gives a very good indication.

Originally posted by The Scenario
They might show it by everything exploding as even fractions of light will do that, but they didn't.

Explain how moving at the speed of light must make everything explode. Proof of your explanations would do nicely. Or artist doesn't get how much energy is behind light-speed.

Originally posted by The Scenario
I believe rule 14 says that characters use their abilities "as they are presented." So...where is this stuff presented?

Presented != shown. It is presented as a light speed attack by the description, and it seems the artist at least tries to make it that fast, to a layman it could look like speed of light movement because he isn't moving and still hitting Cloud in-fact I bet if I asked someone that doesn't play games and doesn't understand physics they would say he was moving FTL.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Where does it show Sephiroth as durable because he can move at that speed?

Well if he wasn't, than how could he move at that speed?

Originally posted by The Scenario
Where is it presented that Sephiroth will use this speed (he's never shown anywhere else) except for during that one attack that just hits around a character?

Easily attributed to the fact he didn't want to kill Cloud, but to control him. You don't know enough about Dissidia to understand why.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Argue what you want, but as it stands, Sephiroth has only shown that rather pathetic display.

Pathetic? That is easily faster than Link.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Which would, of course, make him an idiot since he doesn't use it all the time.

An idiot who saw through the cycles and is the only one who realises that the cycle just repeats in Dissidia. In Dissidia, Sephiroth only manipulates characters into furthering his goal of ending the cycles so he can get back to his plans.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Or, in respect to his character as a thinking individual, he is simply unable to use something that would have been so useful as to break the plot.

I am not following you here. Are you saying he didn't use it because PiS?

Originally posted by K1ll3r
Lol, Gameplay. Sephiroth still needs to be balanced in game play so that the player can win. Sephiroth hasn't used it canonically, however according to visuals of the attack and statements, it has the power of an expanding star.

Visuals still indicate it being an illusion, however, as it is still being depicted as destroying the solar system, star, and planet they are on multiple times. Trying to appeal to game mechanics is just confirming that it's not as powerful as it should be for completely arbitrary reasons. He might as well not even have it.


No, it just means using it won't further the goals Sephiroth has AND I never said it had the power of an expanding star, I have always been paraphrasing from the CCCG. Lol are you implying that The Lifestream would still be there after Supernova? I used to think, before this statement from the CCCG that Supernova utilised Sephiroths ability for illusions and was a powerful magical attack but couldn't destroy the solar system.

Which is pretty much what it is. Meteor is also stated to be the most powerful materia in existence and able to destroy the planet, yet Sephiroth still uses it. In any case, he already had thelifestream at that point, what did he need the planet for? There's not not much reason not to use your abilities to kill your enemy when it's available, so he's still stupid or just couldn't do it.


What?

Claiming that Link can't be defeated due to a wish on the Triforce. I wasn't intending that to be taken seriously, as it is beyond silly.


Or just bad writing. Or they don't want to use it, due to 'not trying'.

Bad writing falls into the "absolute moron" category, and really doesn't lend itself well to proving that a given character will use it now if they didn't when it would be most useful. But unless they have a good reason to avoid using it, it's more likely they can't in that specific circumstance.


If he really was that strong a person a normal guy would have 0 chance of moving against his strength. I thought Kratos never messed around (According to his debaters)?

Kratos, as far as I had seen, doesn't usually go for an immediate kill. He tends to brutalize the opponent first (cutting off legs, throwing around, etc. ) before delivering a killing blow. It's pretty much the entire purpose of all of those quicktime events at the end of a fight.


Have the creators of Metroid stated we have never seen Samus use her full power? Because the creators of Sephiroth have. Your example does not apply here.

Is he trying to lose? I will never understand why characters refuse to use their full power even when they're losing or dying. And are you claiming that Sephiroth will his full power here when his established character is to not do this?

And no, Samus' developers have only stated that she's a Futanari.


Whoa, statements.

These are different, Sephiroths gives a specific limit. For these to be the same Sephiroths would need to be: Faster than everything movement. Making it a no-limits fallacy.

Except one is no-limits, the other has a limit. Taking into account the artists not understanding the implication and numbers of light-speed can easily be the reason for that. How does it not match up in the plot?

The Triforce is, in fact stated to be omnipotent. Omnipotence being defined as infinite in power. But are you calling the developers wrong there? There's really no difference between that and Sephiroth, as neither appears to realize the consequences, and such consequences are not taken into account for other abilities. Both are clearly false, essentially.

The Triforce doesn't match up to the plot in that it can be resisted, which by definition means it does not have infinite power. The Master Sword is stated to resist the Triforce's powers, and if it truly were omnipotent the plot would be broken, since the Master Sword is pretty much the only thing that keeps Ganon from wishing Link out of existence. Sephiroth, similarly, does not display his informed abilities, which if used would break the plot.


They aren't even afterimages though, you just don't see him move. He doesn't appear in two places at once..the part where it is slowed down by what appears to be half (on top of the original slowing down) and he at least HAS been in five different places at once, add on attacks that aren't on angles to be reflected so nicely...

It doesn't really have to the speed of light, though. Human eyes can't really track objects moving faster than 200 mph (stuff gets blurry at 100 mph), and will not even see something traveling around the speed of sound (around 700 mph) or even less because it's too dang fast. I'm not entirely sure how it would work, but an afterimage shouldn't be possible unless they're flashes of light (like the ones from the sword) that last longer than the object is in front of the eyes.


Also, who says the light is hitting him, he may be hitting the light. Give your multitude of reasons please, obviously with as much proof as you can.

Him hitting the light and light hitting him are the same thing. If Sephiroth wants to appear as if he hasn't moved, he must move back to the spot he started at before we register that he moved in the first place. In the scene, he appears to still be moving, so if what you claim is true it means Sephiroth moved to attack Cloud, then moves back to his original position, then back to Cloud, then back to almost his original position (but with his sword arm moved a millimeter,) then back and forth, moving too fast to see one moment then slowing enough to be seen the next until the effect is achieved, seeing as he appears to still swing his sword even as the blows rain onto Cloud. Oh, and he's also keeping his cape in almost the same position but changing it so that it appears to be reacting to wind and his apparently slight movement but really moving all of the place.

My main problem being that the attack looks like a sword beam that exploded into hundreds of pieces. Really, if I was shown that attack with no context I would describe it as a shotgun style blast attack, not speed, mostly because no speed is apparent.


Yes.

Which can be attributed to, artists not knowing what the numbers mean. Or if you want, means Cloud can take light-speed attacks.

Exactly, the devs don't really know what the numbers they just made up mean so the way they present those abilities won't match the description. So I prefer to go with the one that is more consistent with that character and doesn't make anyone an idiot or otherwise break the plot. In this case, that would be the visuals.


Well the fact that while his body was inside a meteor, and it hit a planet while his body was still inside of it gives a very good indication.

That's general durability. What tells you that his movement put any kind of stress on his body? What makes him possibly moving at that speed impressive durability wise? Since most of the damage from movement would be from sheer friction or g-forces, so what indication is there that Sephiroth is undergoing such forces?

As it stands, nothing happens when he moves, so his body is not shown to be tanking any kind of stress at all from pure movement. This power "as presented" shows no durability other than what you are choosing to apply to it. If Sephiroth was shown to be moving at light speed and it was shown that he was shrugging off the forces involved, that would be something. What you have is something that does not appear to be movement and is missing all of the necessary factors and side effects, while you are arguing that the unseen side effects prove something.


Explain how moving at the speed of light must make everything explode. Proof of your explanations would do nicely. Or artist doesn't get how much energy is behind light-speed.

Seeing as light speed movement is impossible and it's mostly just humoring the possibility? Well, the closer you get to light speed, the more energy it takes. Einstein's famous equation E=mc2 basically means that for any nonzero mass to reach the speed of light, it takes infinite energy. Massless particles or waves (like light) move at light speed because they have no mass. More mass, more energy to move it, and as lightspeed is the maximum, it takes infinite energy. Best I can do to explain that one.

Another, for non light speed, is friction. In atmosphere, like air, stuff tends to ignite when moving a hypersonic speed. Around mach 5 (five time the speed of sound and still hundreds/thousands of time slower than light) is the point where it starts exploding due to friction. Hitting near the speed of light (or around 1% of it) can turn stuff into plasma, which will superheat and explode the air. This is why moving at high speed requires durability, and if it doesn't happen, you don't need durability.

So if Sephiroth hits light speed and then hits something else, he's hitting it with technically infinite energy and turning the air around him into plasma. Thus kablooey.


Presented != shown. It is presented as a light speed attack by the description, and it seems the artist at least tries to make it that fast, to a layman it could look like speed of light movement because he isn't moving and still hitting Cloud in-fact I bet if I asked someone that doesn't play games and doesn't understand physics they would say he was moving FTL.

This would tie into my earlier "no speed apparent" since I didn't think he was even supposed to be moving until you told me he was. It does, in fact, more resemble as spell because of, as you note, Sephiroth not moving. The description and visuals differ to the point that I would not say they were same move. But in any case, this speed is not presented as requiring durability to be done, hence why I wouldn't think it shows durability. It is not presented as highly damaging, hence it I wouldn't think it does high damage. It is not even presented as particularly hard to block, hence you know the rest.


Well if he wasn't, than how could he move at that speed?

As I said, he isn't shown to need it. As it is shown in the video you have given me, this light speed attack has none of the effects associated with high speeds, is not highly damaging to either the user or the target, and in fact seems to be highly inaccurate. Maybe it is light speed, maybe it is not, but one thing is clear: if it does not behave as it does in the real world, it should not have real world rules applied to it.


Easily attributed to the fact he didn't want to kill Cloud, but to control him. You don't know enough about Dissidia to understand why.

Pretty sure Dissidia isn't canon, but whatever you say.

The "FF" series' characters which appear in this game already have their own stories but how will they be introduced?
TA: " Dissidia: Final Fantasy"'s story is not directly linked to the "FF" stories these characters come from. However, we have designed it so that, as you get closer to the game's ending, there will be some kind of link you can see relating to each one of them. Also, although this is a different world and story, the characters will keep their recognisable personalities so fans can rest assured. (Laughs)

This being the common quote, I believe.


Pathetic? That is easily faster than Link.

Don't really care about Link right now. Sephiroth being light speed just set off my allergies.


An idiot who saw through the cycles and is the only one who realises that the cycle just repeats in Dissidia. In Dissidia, Sephiroth only manipulates characters into furthering his goal of ending the cycles so he can get back to his plans.

And? Doesn't mean he can't screw up or be an idiot. I am not saying that Sephiroth is an idiot, mind, just that failing to use such abilities would make him one. Since he doesn't use the abilities, and we're assuming he is not a moron, it's really much better for him to simply be unable to use such abilities any time he wants.


I am not following you here. Are you saying he didn't use it because PiS?

No. I am saying that the choices are stupidity in an intelligent character (PiS, in other words) or that he somehow can't do what you are claiming or he, as an intelligent person, would have. You can't have Sephiroth being intelligent and failing so hard at the same time, so the reasonable choice is that such inconsistencies are just that: outliers with little to no bearing on what Sephiroth can/can't or will/won't do in any given situation.

Stupidity OR lack of consistent ability.

Sephiroth lightspeed what now?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Sephiroth lightspeed what now?
Kill3r being a tard. 😬 Citing hyperbole from a non-canon game.

Its sad that I no longer possess the willingness to sift through all this refuse to see what the argument is.

just seph being wanked off as much as humanly possible

again.

Heh, I argue that the real question is does Seph have anything down there to wank?