Lying to someone involving their religious beliefs over yours

Started by inimalist3 pages
Originally posted by TacDavey
I'm not saying Lawyers are evil, I'm just saying they don't provide a valid example of a "good" lie situation.

totally depends on how you define good

it is certainly good for the lawyer

Re: Lying to someone involving their religious beliefs over yours

Originally posted by chomperx9
Should you stick to your beliefs and what you think is wrong or right 100% of the time when having a convo with someone, even when they might believe in something else ?

Or out of respect is it better to give them the anwer what they want so they dont look at you the wrong way involving a convo that links to something they are against in their religion ?

Awhile back me and my mom got into a discussion over a conversation she had with one of her catholic friends. My mom's Friend's Name is Cheryl and she is verry religious, doesnt believe in abortions or none of that.

But just recently one of our friends thats known us for many years had an abortion awhile back because she broke up with her Hubby and they were only married a month. He just ran off and Kamila didnt want to put a 2nd child in a position without a father, liker her 1st son, so she had an abortion. Cheryl asked my mom not to long ago and when is the baby due, and my mom said to cheryl that Kamila had a miscarriage instead of telling the truth and saying she got an abortion, only because sheryl is catholic and is against that. Do you think that was the best move ?

by lying to her friend about that, that means she is putting her friends beliefs over her own. I understand she did it out of respect some and didnt watn to start some arguement. But at times like that I think you should always be honest.

Constant development is the law of life, and a man who always tries to maintain his dogmas in order to appear consistent drives himself into a false position.
-Ghandi

Originally posted by inimalist
a friend comes to you with something they are proud of, but you don't think it is very good. Obviously you don't want to heap undue praise on it, but you would be against phrasing constructive criticism in a positive light?

your need for truth would have you belittle and criticize their work?

the ability to not be entirely honest is actually critical to our existence as social animals... Hell, you could reframe any time you aren't just oggling pretty girls into a dishonesty to your own feelings, thus, you must act like a creeper on the bus, else you are lying to yourself

Weather I think it is good or not is irrelevant, he/she is proud of it, and that is great. Now, if I have something I could say to potentially help him/her, then I would say it, I wouldn't be rude, but I wouldn't outright lie to them.

You might think of it as "belittling" but in all honesty, if everyone was "nice" because they didn't want to hurt their feelings, nothing would get done, or everything would be big piles of crap.

I'm not sure I follow your point with the girls...are you saying that...no, I have no idea what you are trying to say here.

Originally posted by menokokoro
There are no scenarios I can think of that a lie would be a better outcome (barring life threatening, or the equivalent, situations). But that may be that I just value the truth more than most people, but I still think that everyone would be much happier if they were always honest.

I value truth, and also agree that people would be happier if they were always honest. Neither of those points changes my stance though. Saying that all lies are bad is childish, imo. Plenty of real-world examples have been given, and if we extend it to hypothetical situations where we can take the unlikely but technically possible (i.e. a small lie to, say, a mob boss = a small child living as opposed to dying for petty theft) then it becomes even more clear. The distinction becomes where you draw the line, not whether or not it's good/bad to always tell the truth.

Originally posted by Digi
I value truth, and also agree that people would be happier if they were always honest. Neither of those points changes my stance though. Saying that all lies are bad is childish, imo. Plenty of real-world examples have been given, and if we extend it to hypothetical situations where we can take the unlikely but technically possible (i.e. a small lie to, say, a mob boss = a small child living as opposed to dying for petty theft) then it becomes even more clear. The distinction becomes where you draw the line, not whether or not it's good/bad to always tell the truth.
Well, your definition of "bad" is obviously different than mine. Not all lies will "hurt" anyone, but I do believe that it does hurt you mentally, and spiritually, and that is bad, in my mind. Just wanted to clarify where I'm coming from

Originally posted by menokokoro
Well, your definition of "bad" is obviously different than mine. Not all lies will "hurt" anyone, but I do believe that it does hurt you mentally, and spiritually, and that is bad, in my mind. Just wanted to clarify where I'm coming from

Explain to me how lying to a mob boss about a small theft to save a girl's life hurts you spiritually.

Like I said, we're not dealing in black & white here. Because if lying in that scenario is bad, or is mentally hurtful to you, there's something wrong with your worldview. "Lying is always bad" is needlessly dogmatic and dangerous, imo.

Too much Herr Kant in this thread.

Originally posted by inimalist
totally depends on how you define good

it is certainly good for the lawyer

I'm taking it from a general understanding of good and bad. I don't know how the person asking the question defines it.

This lawyer hate is ridiculous. Plenty of lawyers have spent their career fighting for good in court.

Originally posted by menokokoro
I'm not sure I follow your point with the girls...are you saying that...no, I have no idea what you are trying to say here.

depending on what you call a lie, certain social norms could be considered "dishonesty"

Originally posted by King Kandy
This lawyer hate is ridiculous. Plenty of lawyers have spent their career fighting for good in court.

no lawyer has ever defended human rights

/fact

Originally posted by inimalist
no lawyer has ever defended human rights

/fact


can't tell if serious.

Originally posted by Digi
Explain to me how lying to a mob boss about a small theft to save a girl's life hurts you spiritually.

Like I said, we're not dealing in black & white here. Because if lying in that scenario is bad, or is mentally hurtful to you, there's something wrong with your worldview. "Lying is always bad" is needlessly dogmatic and dangerous, imo.

You must have missed where I said that life/death situations are acceptable.

Originally posted by menokokoro
You must have missed where I said that life/death situations are acceptable.

What if the girl will only be brutally tortured?

Originally posted by King Kandy
can't tell if serious.

rly?

Originally posted by menokokoro
barring life threatening, or the equivalent, situations
Now, what I mean by "or the equivalent" is the equivalent as far as a moral guideline.

Originally posted by inimalist
rly?

Yes Really because it was such a rediculous interjection.

Originally posted by inimalist
EDIT: any time you tell a telemarketer you are busy

My favorite scenario about "lies". I usually tell them I have plenty of time but don't give even a tiny little shit about what they are selling. I wish them luck with the next person. 😄

This also works when people call me to help someone move that I do not know. I usually say I have time but want to spend it other places like sleeping in my bed or with my family.

See...telling the truth ain't so bad. 🙂 It's just that people might say, "oh, there goes that callused ***hole." If they say that, they don't know me. If they don't know me, I'm obviously not going to care.

Re: Lying to someone involving their religious beliefs over yours

Originally posted by chomperx9
I understand she did it out of respect some and didnt watn to start some arguement. But at times like that I think you should always be honest.
To be honest in a situation like this would cause a person to feel judged and possibly ruin the relationship.

I agree honesty is best but not in all situations. People just can't take it and get defensive.

Originally posted by chomperx9
but that would be her personal decision, It would be wrong for a friend to stop being friends with you, if you started a Relationship with a guy that your friend couldnt stand.

your friends arent always going to make the choices that you make, thats for sure.

No but I just would not be able to look at her the same if she did that.It is just how I am.