Resist.. urge..... to debate...
Originally posted by carver9
I want you to reply to it since we both know that a Super Saiyan is MUCH faster than a Goku that ran snake way in 28 hrs unless you honestly believe that Saiyan saga speed is>than the speed of the Goku that fought the Ginyu force and = to a Super Saiyan which would be next to half crazy.Super Saiyan Goku speed>>>Goku speed that freshly arrived on Namek>>>Goku that took 28 hrs to cross snake way.
Do you disagree with this?
To elaborate on my post.. and only elaborate, Im not gonna derail this thread >:
1. Straw man; Never said that Saiyan saga>Ginyu saga=SSJ gai, I said that we can't get their exact speed from PL scaling as there isn't a direct linear correlation. Eg The speed between a PL5 and PL10 doesnt match the gap between that and PL100, or that and PL200, or that and PL5000, or that and PL24000 or that and PL500000. Faster yes (in most cases) but no direct linear increase to say anything else.
2. ^Faulty scaling, I heard its faulty. Unlike calcs that steadily show a speed increase and cap at SSJ Gotenks at Mach1000~. AKA around 0.1%c for SSJG Gotenks level characters.
3. Can't find that bloody exit.. damn Escher...
Originally posted by BloodRain
To elaborate on my post.. and only elaborate, Im not gonna derail this thread >:
1. Straw man; Never said that Saiyan saga>Ginyu saga=SSJ gai, I said that we can't get their exact speed from PL scaling as there isn't a direct linear correlation. Eg The speed between a PL5 and PL10 doesnt match the gap between that and PL100, or that and PL200, or that and PL5000, or that and PL24000 or that and PL500000. Faster yes (in most cases) but no direct linear increase to say anything else.
2. ^Faulty scaling, I heard its faulty. Unlike calcs that steadily show a speed increase and cap at SSJ Gotenks at Mach1000~. AKA around 0.1%c for SSJG Gotenks level characters.
3. Can't find that bloody exit.. damn Escher...
How is he Mach 1000 when he circled the Earth multiple of times in a couple of seconds? Just because he flew to Buu place in a minute doesn't take away from his ftl feat. He might didn't want to achieve light speed reaching Buu because it would have destroyed a portion of the planet.
How about this bloodrain... Frieza during his final stage of transforming was shooting energy attacks so fast that it was completely invisible to the necked eye/super human eyes. If you can show me one attack/blast that is that fast, someone shooting off blast that is completely invisible then that would make Frieza attack the most fastest attack in comic history (minus the attacks that took place "after" the Frieza saga"😉. So you can use ANY character... Marvel/DC, etc, to help your case, you will never find one because Frieza attack is the true meaning of a ftl attack and if that is the case...hhhmmm.
Because that, once again, is missing a time-frame. Also look what you're saying; ''a couple of seconds'' even without a time-frame the number you're suggesting makes the feat less than SoL. FYI light can circle the Earth nine times in a second and iirc Gotenks didn't make nine loops and he didn't do it in one second. In other words he wasn't FTL.
Oh, and before I forget don't let the panel fool you, Gotenks had anything in the 29 mins to do those laps. Reason being that if it was in a few seconds Piccolo would have reached Gotenks while he was taking a nap (or so he says) long before the 30 min time-limit was up. The only way that this feat can be SoL is if Gotenks did the loops in under a second (No time-frame(you yourself admit that it looks like more than a second)) and if Piccolo had to take 29mins to get to where Gotenks was. Now unless you're suggesting that Piccolo would take 29mins to reach any point on the planet aka only Mach 33...
Really? Ok. The attack being faster then they can see means its faster then their reaction, nothing FTL can be gathered from that. Ya'know that human-sized or less object at or above 100m/s are invisible to the human eye, right? What youre asking for is the basic of almost any fiction where one superhuman gets blitzed by someone else, and as we know you need more speed to make a large object invisible to the naked eye than a smaller one. Does that make these characters FTL too?
The speed of Freeza's beams are only faster than the reactions of characters that get blitzed by things slower then SoL ie Mach 100 characters movements. Baseless and senseless to suggest FTL only because some guys couldn't react to it.
Originally posted by BloodRain
Because that, once again, is missing a time-frame. Also look what you're saying; ''a couple of seconds'' even without a time-frame the number you're suggesting makes the feat less than SoL. FYI light can circle the Earth nine times in a second and iirc Gotenks didn't make nine loops and he didn't do it in one second. In other words he wasn't FTL.
Oh, and before I forget don't let the panel fool you, Gotenks had anything in the 29 mins to do those laps. Reason being that if it was in a few seconds Piccolo would have reached Gotenks while he was taking a nap (or so he says) long before the 30 min time-limit was up. The [b]only way that this feat can be SoL is if Gotenks did the loops in under a second (No time-frame(you yourself admit that it looks like more than a second)) and if Piccolo had to take 29mins to get to where Gotenks was. Now unless you're suggesting that Piccolo would take 29mins to reach any point on the planet aka only Mach 33...Really? Ok. The attack being faster then they can see means its faster then their reaction, nothing FTL can be gathered from that. Ya'know that human-sized or less object at or above 100m/s are invisible to the human eye, right? What youre asking for is the basic of almost any fiction where one superhuman gets blitzed by someone else, and as we know you need more speed to make a large object invisible to the naked eye than a smaller one. Does that make these characters FTL too?
The speed of Freeza's beams are only faster than the reactions of characters that get blitzed by things slower then SoL ie Mach 100 characters movements. Baseless and senseless to suggest FTL only because some guys couldn't react to it. [/B]
HHHMMM, good point about the FTL feat of Gotenks going around the planet. As for Piccolo... he was right behind Gotenks while he was flyinf and basically lost him due to sheer speed. I'm pretty sure he had to feel where Gotenks was and THEN fly to that location which could have been difficult since Gotenks could have been anywhere on the planet. What we do know is that Gotenks flew around the planet, took a nap, etc, etc, which is faster than Mach 1000.
I guess you can't find that invisible beam for me huh? I guess you can't show me an attack that is slower than light that is invisible to the necked eye huh? How fast is Supermans heat vision? How fast can Surfer shoot a blast?
Im sorry did you take my negative view of that feat and not refute it but instead just say the reverse back at me like I supported it? Bad play sir, bad play. I'll space it out: Gotenks did 5+ loops where light does 9. Gotenks took more than a second where light takes one. Thus he can in no way be as fast as light. Hows that?
''fly to that location which could have been difficult since Gotenks could have been anywhere on the planet.''
The furthest distance Gotenks could have been from Piccolo = 20,000km. Even Namek Piccolo could find Gotenks in 5-10mins with his speed. 😐 If he took 5mins to find him then Gotenks had 25... nah lets assume that it took him 10mins instead, and that it took 5mins more to find his location and also another 5mins for Gotenks outside of the circling feat for the hell of it. That would give Gotenks 10 minutes to circle the Earth like he did. It may just be me but circling the Earth several times in 10mins doesn't really sound like FTL.
I take it by that response that you didn't actually read my post. Anything human-sized or below moving around 100m/s+ is invisible to the naked eye, things 1/3,000,000th the speed of light. Do you want me to list all the things that can move at these speeds? Oh maybe I could list every anime where a person speed-blitzes some other superhuman character?
Originally posted by BloodRain
Im sorry did you take my negative view of that feat and not refute it but instead just say the reverse back at me like I supported it? Bad play sir, bad play. I'll space it out: Gotenks did 5+ loops where light does 9. Gotenks took more than a second where light takes one. Thus he can in no way be as fast as light. Hows that?
''fly to that location which could have been difficult since Gotenks could have been anywhere on the planet.''
The furthest distance Gotenks could have been from Piccolo = 20,000km. Even Namek Piccolo could find Gotenks in 5-10mins with his speed. 😐 If he took 5mins to find him then Gotenks had 25... nah lets assume that it took him 10mins instead, and that it took 5mins more to find his location and also another 5mins for Gotenks outside of the circling feat for the hell of it. That would give Gotenks 10 minutes to circle the Earth like he did. It may just be me but circling the Earth several times in 10mins doesn't really sound like FTL.I take it by that response that you didn't actually read my post. Anything human-sized or below moving around 100m/s+ is invisible to the naked eye, things 1/3,000,000th the speed of light. Do you want me to list all the things that can move at these speeds? Oh maybe I could list every anime where a person speed-blitzes some other superhuman character?
So I guess you can't show me what I asked you for?
You are sitting here talking about 100mps when it wasn't humans that weren't able to see Frieza attacks, it was super humans. Now again, please show me a attack that is completely invisible. You have a lot of characters to choose from.
Another thing, when Raditz dodged Piccolo attack and Piccolo said that Raditz is as fast as ????, what do you think he was going to say? Don't say speed of sound because Goku and the crew was dodging bullets since the beginning of DB... don't say the speed of lightning because PoPo stated that he was going to train Goku to be as fast as lightning. So what was Piccolo going to say?
..Wow, you're really not getting this are you? Going to say this one more time and if you give the same response Im going to start throwing pens at you.
The attack, aka the thing you want to see, is anything produced by character B that can move faster than the reactions of character A. So in actually you'll have to first prove that their reactions are FTL to state that that beam was FTL.
Lightning = hyperbole, try remember this. And we had the conversation of the name of a move including the word 'light' does not mean its lit light speed, Demon impaling light killing gun.. is that what youre getting the idea that its light speed from? Also just read through that scene and didnt see Piccolo say that Raditz is as fast as light, scan if I missed it plox?
And just for funsies; the 'ko' part in Makankosappo mean either ray, light or beam. Nothing to do with light speed... 😕
Originally posted by BloodRain
..Wow, you're really not getting this are you? Going to say this one more time and if you give the same response Im going to start throwing pens at you.
The attack, aka the thing you want to see, is anything produced by character B that can move faster than the reactions of character A. So in actually you'll have to first prove that their reactions are FTL to state that that beam was FTL.Lightning = hyperbole, try remember this. And we had the conversation of the name of a move including the word 'light' does not mean its lit light speed, Demon impaling light killing gun.. is that what youre getting the idea that its light speed from? Also just read through that scene and didnt see Piccolo say that Raditz is as fast as light, scan if I missed it plox?
And just for funsies; the 'ko' part in Makankosappo mean either ray, light or beam. Nothing to do with light speed... 😕
I got what you said but it doesn't help the question that I am asking you. I asked if you could show me one beam that travels faster than ANYONE could see. Lol... don't throw any pens...
What I am asking you is, what was Piccolo about to say about Raditz speed when he dodged that blast? Its pretty much common sense to me.
Then the question and evidence you're asking for has nothing to do with the topic nor can it benefit anyone. The one and only thing we can gather from the beam is that its faster than a Mach100's reactions, thats it. To say its lightspeed requires more proof than youre willing to give as it seems.
http://www.mangareader.net/105-2851-5/dragon-ball/chapter-202.html
You were saying? Im not seeing where he said Raditz is as fast as...~
Makankosappo =/= light speed, as you're only going by the word 'light' in the name..
Originally posted by BloodRain
Then the question and evidence you're asking for has nothing to do with the topic nor can it benefit anyone. The one and only thing we can gather from the beam is that its faster than a Mach100's reactions, thats it. To say its lightspeed requires more proof than youre willing to give as it seems.http://www.mangareader.net/105-2851-5/dragon-ball/chapter-202.html
You were saying? Im not seeing where he said Raditz is as fast as...~Makankosappo =/= light speed, as you're only going by the word 'light' in the name..
Where did you get that scan? Its all jacked up or you typed that yourself. No wonder you can't find the things that I ask you for in the Manga. This is what was really said... the other statement about Raditz speed was said after this scan. Its pointless for me to ask you to post it since your latest scan was.....
http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/5512/303413-spb2_super.jpg
I don't know where you got your scan from. Is it home made?
Urm.... mangareader? Ya'know, like the link says? O.o
Right, lets compare:
My link; "H-He avoided it! - Wha... what is he...? Th... that speed..."
Your link; "He... he sidedtepped it...!! - But no one... can move so quickly..."
What you said; "Piccolo said that Raditz is as fast as ????"
^How does what you're talking about relate to either of the above in suggesting that Piccolo said that Raditz was as fast as light? Seeing as the Maka- urgh, special beam cannon isn't FTL I'm guessing the light-speed quote is not in this scene.
Originally posted by carver9No hes not.
Why would it be foolish when overall, he IS a light speedster?
And Carver, Goku had a power level higher then 5,000 when crossing snake way the second time. He was surpressing his power level when he was fighting nappa who read it as 5,000.
He got up to 21,000 then Bulmas scouter broke.
But it should take super sayian Goku a matter of minutes.
