Are unions feasible today?

Because of the popular discussion on many threads and in life in general (and based on the fact I had seen no other exact thread made to my surprise) I decided to make a thread on unions.

I myself feel they are not feasible in today's society. Yes they have had a part in our culture, and made headway for workers. I feel nowadays they are a drain on company resources and they give incentives to people who don't produce. I know some will agree and some will not. That is why I made this thread.

Anyways, what do you think? I may do a poll, but those things seem to be hacked. Ah what the hell...

No, the usefullness of unions is in the past. Even mentioning the U-word at many jobs is a fast way to get fired, and rightfully so.

This is 2011, not 1930.

I think it depends on job, I belong to a professional association which I need for protection in a variety of ways and to argue pay rises and conditions with the Government.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
No, the usefullness of unions is in the past. Even mentioning the U-word at many jobs is a fast way to get fired, and rightfully so.

This is 2011, not 1930.

They have laws for workers and discrimination now. Unions drain resources and provide less quality in their work. Generally.

Are there exceptions? Yes, but that is in general.

The system here works like that. A person buys what they want, if they don't like the price they go somewhere else. If a person goes to a job and doesn't like the pay, they can go somewhere else. If a person owns a company and the work is too expensive they can go somewhere else or use technology.

Freedom for both sides. The way it should be, with some legal regulation of course.

I believe people need to see "Norma Rae," as a reminder why unions became necessary in the first place.

As long as those in power succumb to the corruption by power, workers will suffer. Before unions, there was harassment and nepotism. Yes, laws offer some protection, but any legal defense is at the employee's expense, and often, things like harassment can be very hard to prove. Unions offer immediate group strength and support.

Have unions themselves become flawed and abusive? Of course! Why should they be different from any other human system or organization? Religious, political: look how we've abused capitalism to get in the economic mess we're in. Yet no one is saying nix it. Instead, fix it.

Unions do need to undergo recalibration. But they are not greedy society's bailout package; they are how the little guy can meet the big guy on equal ground.

/rant

Originally posted by Mindship
I believe people need to see "Norma Rae," as a reminder why unions became necessary in the first place.

As long as those in power succumb to the corruption by power, workers will suffer. Before unions, there was harassment and nepotism. Yes, laws offer some protection, but any legal defense is at the employee's expense, and often, things like harassment can be very hard to prove. Unions offer immediate group strength and support.

Have unions themselves become flawed and abusive? Of course! Why should they be different from any other human system or organization? Religious, political: look how we've abused capitalism to get in the economic mess we're in. Yet no one is saying nix it. Instead, fix it.

Unions need to undergo the same recalibration. They are not greedy society's bailout package; they are how the little guy can meet the big guy on equal ground.

/rant

Very good post.

That is possible. I don't think anybody is saying they didn't play their role. But look at the damage they have caused as well. Everybody suffers at that point, from employees to the owners. Unions are a tool which can be good or bad.

They have laws out there now, and many people abuse these laws to file lousy claims, and to get benefits from it so they can't make it too easy. People scam individually all of the time. Unions are much like the feminist movement. They started off with a good idea and then lost their way and became a monster.

It's very hard to take freedoms back once they have been removed.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I agree with that, unions gave overtime pay, weekends, etc.

They have laws for workers and discrimination now. Unions drain resources and provide less quality in their work. Generally.

Are there exceptions? Yes, but that is in general.

The system here works like that. A person buys what they want, if they don't like the price they go somewhere else. If a person goes to a job and doesn't like the pay, they can go somewhere else. If a person owns a company and the work is too expensive they can go somewhere else or use technology.

Freedom for both sides. The way it should be, with some legal regulation of course.

Originally posted by Bardock42
If a person doesn't like the pay he can go to his coworkers and discuss with them to protest that pay together...seems fair.

Problem is, it's one thing when you're making nothing and you're talking about pay. Americans make enough and you have the auto industry where they're making 30/hr for low skilled labor.

Meanwhile foreign vehicles have cheaper production and lower overhead, they're winning.

They had to rise the cost of the vehicles in America to cover costs, the money doesn't come from the sky. Legacy costs are tacked on to each vehicle to cover the coverage of workers who have long since retired. When companies are blowing through a billion a month, things have to change.

"other countries don't believe in basic human rights and a living wage, thus, our companies must be allowed to exploit our own citizens such that we can compete with, essentially, slave labour"

man, I love your utopia

Originally posted by inimalist
"other countries don't believe in basic human rights and a living wage, thus, our companies must be allowed to exploit our own citizens such that we can compete with, essentially, slave labour"

man, I love your utopia

Would people be willing to pay higher prices and get rid of illegal workers and work overseas? I doubt it sincerely.

I don't think that our unions today are effective; what we need is huge general strikes so that we can put a more powerful system in place.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I don't think that our unions today are effective; what we need is huge general strikes so that we can put a more powerful system in place.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Protest how? Striking slows down production. Do you mean just sending letters?

Why do I as a person care whether production is slowed down? Not my problem, man, that's your problem for not paying me and my coworkers well enough for me not to put down work.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Well, you guys want those cheap prices, they come from somewhere.

Would people be willing to pay higher prices and get rid of illegal workers and work overseas? I doubt it sincerely.

yes

but I'm not a rampant consumer... The pants I'm wearing today have lasted me over 10 years

Originally posted by Bardock42
Why do I as a person care whether production is slowed down? Not my problem, man, that's your problem for not paying me and my coworkers well enough for me not to put down work.

Eventually the competition is going to take advantage of your lack of production, you'll lose more money, etc.

Originally posted by inimalist
yes

but I'm not a rampant consumer... The pants I'm wearing today have lasted me over 10 years

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Maybe you are but generally they are not and it has been proven.

people were also in favor of segregation

Originally posted by inimalist
people were also in favor of segregation

Red herring.

The point is if people don't like the price they will shop somewhere else. Companies keep costs down by using those methods.

Not to mention unions and other lower workers complained when technology took place of them. No abuse of workers or underpaying there, low maintenance and costs. They wanted jobs because they felt they were entitled to them.

or, they needed to feed their children?