Psychology Today Controversy

Started by Symmetric Chaos3 pages

Psychology Today Controversy

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/05/17/136399684/bloggers-ugly-conclusions-anger-some-in-the-black-community

A blog posting on the website of Psychology Today asserted that black women were "objectively less physically attractive than other women" and then, as a backlash built — it vanished.

The posting was written by Satoshi Kanazawa, an evolutionary psychology scholar associated with the London School of Economics, on a blog for the publication called The Scientific Fundamentalist. The posting's headline was initially tweaked and the entire essay was subsequently removed altogether on Monday.

Kanazawa's essay made a series of contentious claims including that women are on average more attractive than men — except for African-American women.

"It is very interesting to note that, even though black women are objectively less physically attractive than other women, black women (and men) subjectively consider themselves to be far more physically attractive than others," he wrote.

A number of prominent African-American commentators took offense.

"It struck us as so outrageous that we almost thought it was a hoax of some sort, and we double-checked the URL to make sure it didn't include 'The Onion'," wrote Jenee Desmond-Harris of TheRoot.

In an email to NPR, Kaja Perina, Psychology Today's editor-in-chief, distanced her publication from Kanazawa's essay.

"Our bloggers are credential[ed] social scientists and for this reason they are invited to post to the site on topics of their choosing," Perina wrote. "We in turn reserve the right to remove posts for any number of reasons. Because the post was not commissioned or solicited by PT (in contrast to a magazine article), there was no editorial intent to address questions of race and physical attractiveness."

She did not address why the magazine's site had not acknowledged the removal or explain why it had done so.

Kanazawa has drawn criticism in several instances in the past, such as his contention that African countries were poor and suffered from ill health because their population suffered from low IQ, rather than poverty, war, disease, corruption, and other sources.

In this case, Kanazawa wrote that he drew upon data points from Add Health — the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health first started in 1994-95 and updated most recently in 2008 — which he said "measures the physical attractiveness of its respondents both objectively and subjectively." The survey is a study of the health of adolescents and their behavior and health in young adulthood.

He speculated that the presence of testosterone, which he said was on average more present among Africans, might explain what he said was "the lower average level of physical attractiveness among black women."

The director of the Add Health project, Kathleen Mullan Harris, contradicted Kanazawa on the nature of her project's research in a telephone interview Tuesday. The longitudinal study, funded by the federal National Institutes of Health, also asked interviewers to describe their subjects' behavior during interviews, ethnicity, and other characteristics.

"He's mischaracterizing the objectiveness of the data — that's wrong. It's subjective. The interviewers' data is subjective," said Harris, who is also a professor of sociology at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

"The empirical analysis does not account for the characteristics of the interviewers, which influence their observation," Harris said, listing such elements as race, ethnicity, sex, education and life experiences.

Efforts to reach Kanazawa were not initially successful. On his personal website, he appeared to court controversy, writing, "Prepare to be offended."

So the guy's racist -- or stupid, or wants attention -- but what I don't get is everything else.

Why does an evolutionary psychologist work from the London School of Economics?
Who on the PT staff thought publishing a blog called The Scientific Fundamentalist was a good idea? And with zero oversight?

inb4 POLITICAL CORRECTNESS IS DESTROYING US!

Um, tell that to Nia Long, Vivica Fox, Tyra Banks, Beyonce, Alek Wek, etc. Lol at that fail.

Originally posted by Genius Grace
Um, tell that to Nia Long, Vivica Fox, Tyra Banks, Beyonce, Alek Wek, etc. Lol at that fail.

Creole
Half Native American
Hideous
Half Creolo
Thats a man, baby.

trollface.jpg

Well, the guy seems like he's out to target blacks.

Though I am wondering, is the outrage about the claims he made, or the lack of scientific rigor and apparent baselessness for them, coupled with his odd speculations?

I would actually assume that on average in England, the US, and Japan people would rate black women lower in attractiveness based on the cultures and society white/Japanese Asian focus and standards of beauty (rather than actual inherent lack of attractiveness based on hormones and God's law of what's pretty). Though this part of his claim sounds possible to me for certain cultures. It would perhaps be interesting to contrast that with the view of ones own attractiveness split up on race.

What we can definitely say is that even black celebrities are tried to be marketed as whiter, such as the bleaching them for covers or giving them nose jobs for traditionally more white features.

true, lots of attractive black women in the world, but in general, i am attracted to a higher percentage of white girls than black girls, so i wouldn't have disagreed with the study. Does that make it racist? or just more controversial than we want to deal with?

Yeah, black women are less attractive: that's why white women get perms, shoot up their lips and bake in the sun for darker skin.

Ah, psychology. 😎

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Creole
Half Native American
Hideous
Half Creolo
Thats a man, baby.

trollface.jpg

Lol at that fail. All African Americans are creole, part native, mixed, etc. Alek Wek is a Woman. She is very pretty.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Creole
Half Native American
Hideous
Half Creolo
Thats a man, baby.

trollface.jpg

so they're not black?
because black is a race right? 😂

Originally posted by Mindship
Yeah, black women are less attractive: that's why white women get perms, shoot up their lips and bake in the sun for darker skin.

Ah, psychology. 😎

Marry me.

Oh, also, the London School of Economics is actually a quite good school, which contrary to its name does not only specialize in Economics.

see, just looked up alex wek, and i don't find her attractive. nothing against her, i just don't.

Originally posted by truejedi
true, lots of attractive black women in the world, but in general, i am attracted to a higher percentage of white girls than black girls, so i wouldn't have disagreed with the study. Does that make it racist? or just more controversial than we want to deal with?

That's not what they guy said (and he didn't perform a study). Read the article.

He claims "black people are objectively less attractive" not "western often people find black people less attractive".

Originally posted by Bardock42
Oh, also, the London School of Economics is actually a quite good school, which contrary to its name does not only specialize in Economics.

Well that explains, that. Thanks.

Originally posted by Genius Grace
Marry me.
It just sounds like I'm worthy.

*resisting urge to Continually post beautiful black women* argh arrgh ah

OS: I'm not at all disagreeing with the fact that there are very many beautiful black women, don't worry. : )

Personally I agree, but that's subjective.

The point is that this "professor" said that "objectively" they "are" less attractive. Had he provided a large, lengthy study on what percentages of each race find attractive and came to something like:

asians find the following women attractive in descending order:

asian - 50%
caucasian - 30%
native american - 15%
african american - 5%

cacuasians find the following women attractivein descending order:

....
....

etc. etc.

Then he COULD have written a very interesting piece, and presented it as a study on women of which race are considered most/least attractive by members of other races.

As it stands, sounds like the dude's just out for blood.

On the African poverty vs. low IQ thing, I can't comment, I have way too little knowledge regarding that particular subject. I do think that parts of the Middle East and Africa are the most backwards places on Earth, but I doubt that is IQ-related alone .

probably more culturally instead of deciding by race, race is simply a social construct, after all. How else do we say someone with one white parent and one black parent is black?

Originally posted by truejedi
probably more culturally instead of deciding by race, race is simply a social construct, after all. How else do we say someone with one white parent and one black parent is black?

"Culture" is a word I tend to avoid when discussing the areas I previously mentioned, since it doesn't seem to belong there. I'd say "way of life" seems better suited.

Re: Psychology Today Controversy

ugh, so much wrong with this I don't know where to start... The worst of it is that it is data mining, rather than an actual study, ie: worthless. I had written out a more proper criticism of some aspects of the data, but then I read this guys methods, and cried at all the time I had wasted criticizing him...

this would be like saying the Pepsi Challenge proves that sports teams with blue in their logo are objectively better

its a shame people get to say such nonsense things under the auspices of "psychology" whereas people who spout nonsense about physics are rarely given so much legitimacy.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Who on the PT staff thought publishing a blog called The Scientific Fundamentalist was a good idea? And with zero oversight?

psychology today, despite the deceiving name, is a popular magazine, not a scientific journal. their standards, or lack there of, are notorious among those in the field

Re: Re: Psychology Today Controversy

Originally posted by inimalist
its a shame people get to say such nonsense things under the auspices of "psychology" whereas people who spout nonsense about physics are rarely given so much legitimacy.

Parapsychology always pisses me off the most.

Originally posted by inimalist
psychology today, despite the deceiving name, is a popular magazine, not a scientific journal. their standards, or lack there of, are notorious among those in the field

I'm aware that they're a pop science magazine and of the horrors of "science" journalism. I just thought they'd have the the foresight not just post blogs without looking to see what was written.