Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
It is murder and what is wrong with giving the baby to someone who needs one?Is people that selfish to think of themselves and not a human being?
No one "needs" a baby...except for Christopher Reeves (too soon?). People should adopt one of the many, many older children from an orphanage or something if they really want one. Babies suck, stem cells rock.
Yeah, I think that sums up my feelings pretty much.
Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
It is murder and what is wrong with giving the baby to someone who needs one?Is people that selfish to think of themselves and not a human being?
No, it's not murder. A zygote is just a bunch of congregated cells in a uterus, and not a human being.
You're not a human being until you're in my phone book.
Originally posted by Bardock42
No one "needs" a baby...except for Christopher Reeves (too soon?). People should adopt one of the many, many older children from an orphanage or something if they really want one. Babies suck, stem cells rock.Yeah, I think that sums up my feelings pretty much.
What's the opposite of Christopher Reeve?
Christopher Walken.
Originally posted by Nemesis X
This is retarded. How the heck can you support abortion and an anti death penalty when abortion is the same as killing someone? They say a fetus is like all the other cells in your body but they don't grow into a human being now do they? What a strange world we live in.
Re: How can you be both Pro Abortion & Anti Death Penalty?
Originally posted by long pig
It's something I've always hated about most liberals. I can not, for the life of me, understand how you can be ok with taking the life of an innocent, yet be horrified when it comes to taking the life of someone who deserves it. I understand someone being ok with killing someone who deserves it but being anti abortion. Although I don't believe in either. Anyways, your thoughts?
I seriously doubt that most true liberals are what you've described. They are most especially misconstrude because of your own definition. When you really think about it -given your assumptions- you're pretending that all liberals consider themselves enlightened, unreasonably and at the expense of folks like yourself. However, you also ascribe to them the religious hang-ups you've also taken from them because most people of your perspective like to think that liberals dismiss god; which is to say morality, at all. However, most people, liberal or otherwise, ill-consider what is primarily preached by western religions. So, don't dismiss that liberals are, as a whole, opposed to the death penalty. For that matter, do or do not kill babies with impunity but ponder a serial killer. While my liberal perspective certainly takes into consideration that your possible baby is going to suck up resources that are finite, it also allows for state-murder AND abortion. What you can't comprehend, though, is that not everyone needs a god-hang-up like yours to define morals. Your supposition is that I care about a fetus any more than I do a sadistic murderer; this is a mistake. This assumption is why terms like 'bleeding-heart' and 'liberal media' are bullshit.
I think Symmetric Chaos pointed the problem out correctly. If you take the pro-life axioms of morality and apply them to pro-choicers it gives a contradiction, but one that is meaningless.
Conversely pro-choicers do the same thing when they say "how can pro-lifers be against abortion but for the death penalty" which does happen as well. For most pro-choicers that is a contradiction, with pro-life axioms that makes perfect sense though.
Of course that's a simplification of pro-life and pro-choice, people hold those beliefs for different reasons, but that is one fundamental problem in the debate
Originally posted by Impediment
No, it's not murder. A zygote is just a bunch of congregated cells in a uterus, and not a human being.You're not a human being until you're in my phone book.
It is a human being it been proven.It grows in you when you are pregnant.You are actly making another human being.That is what makes abortions so sick.
Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
It is a human being it been proven.It grows in you when you are pregnant.You are actly making another human being.That is what makes abortions so sick.
It's not a person with equal legal standing. Human being is too fuzzy a word. It is a being with human DNA, sure, but that's not what people try to imply when they say it's a human being.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Why draw the line there? Every egg has the potential to become a person.
I dont think its a "Why draw the line" kind of argument. Would it not be like,oh whats the concept where the atom is only an atom when observed otherwise it is incohesive? Like it has not manifest or come into being unless consciously observed. This is the same; its a blob of DNA and nerve bundles until you as the observer give it a SOUL.
Just a thought.
Originally posted by Samurai4Hire
I dont think its a "Why draw the line" kind of argument. Would it not be like,oh whats the concept where the atom is only an atom when observed otherwise it is incohesive? Like it has not manifest or come into being unless consciously observed. This is the same; its a blob of DNA and nerve bundles until you as the observer give it a SOUL.Just a thought.
What?
Originally posted by BackFireRight. Every individual has different reasons for thinking somethings right or wrong. A person who tells you that they're anti death penalty when they're calm will shoot the guy who raped their kid on sight. It's easy for people to say they're for or against something on paper, but their true feelings are sometimes even unknown to them until the situation presents itself. People who say they're pro-life will march right into the abortion clinic if certain circumstances move them to.
Different circumstances, different situations, different methods and different motivations behind each act.
Originally posted by RobtardI think the whole liberal vs conservative stuff is pure sh!t. People really aren't one or the other in truthfulness they just represent rough categories and the terms create an illusionary enemy. Absolutely ridiculous that so much of the country has bought into such an obvious, us vs them, distraction.
Hahahahaaa, Liberals are funny.
We're all countrymen but we're pushed by rich people to fight while they enjoy the true definition of enjoying pleasures liberally. Every person who owns a mansion has done something very, very liberal. A mansion is in no way conservative. Now how many politicians live in a comfy little house?
I get the feeling this forum doesn't permit actual thought process, because all these opinions are as contrived and shallow as the sort of ***** who gets an abortion.
You know... time has taught me a lot of things, one of which, is you gotta' pick your battles. You want a unique view on abortion? I'm a communist. Arguably an anarchist/nihilist, and my view is... if abortion was justified, I'd be for it. It just so happens it never is.
Justified would be eugenics. Like for example if we could predict a child would be born a homosexual. However, abortion is never used like this. Instead it's just used haphazardly by whiny ass women, who give some half ass excuse like "I was raped", or "I'm just not ready", or even just "I don't feel like having a kid". The thinly veiled sincerity comes off the moment you press it. Revealing the ugly face of capitalist entitlement. Thats the only reason abortion is legal in this country, or any country, is because
A: It makes people money. People who aren't you. Regardless of your position.
And B: It controls the population. Because God forbid the cattle be so numerous that they be difficult to count. Politics makes a lot more sense when you stop thinking of humans as "people" and more like "livestock". One out of three pregnancies ends in abortion. Can you imagine if it didn't? You think I'm actually worried about poverty and famine? I'm already poor... no, it's the ELITE who worry about their house of cards falling, when all of a sudden 300 million becomes 400 million, and that's more people breaking their stupid laws, not paying their taxes, going against their conditioning, etc. It makes their control grid are the more difficult to maintain. That's why I agree with the right about these faux, pathetic, loser liberal leftists. Lenin was right. They really are infantile and worrisome. They're not just bad for communism, they're bad for humanity. People should be reproducing. Regardless of if they'd make good parents or not. People have been doing it sense the dawn of time. No one said you had to be a good parent till about a hundred years ago, just suck it up and do it. Or don't, throw it in the woods, I don't care. But it's a crime against humanity to abort it.
Everytime I think about some dumb ***** having an abortion, I think about that's another chance of freedom down the drain. Because society is still too orderly... still too controllable... it needs numerous people running around, screaming "row row, fight the power!" and the fenced in areas break apart. If we are cattle, our greatest weapon is our young. We produce so many young, our farmer masters just can't milk and domesticate them all. Chaos equals freedom.
Also, it's just common sense. People are fricking stupid. The same way the pro-choice says that some people aren't equipped to BE parents, they aren't equipped to make life and death decisions either. Why are they just dumb enough to not make good parents, but smart enough to kill their own child? That's ridiculous. It's patronizing their excuses. It's not even like we're a pro choice ****ing country. I can't even smoke a God damn cigarette without putting a down payment, but you're going to tell me you're "pro choice". Give me a break. I'll believe you're pro choice when you kick one of the moderators in the nuts.
So yes, out of principle, and out of a high desire to see people repopulate, I think abortion should be illegal. But abortion in and of itself does not bother me. Because the same way abortion has been used to degrade the poor, the handicapped, and generally all human beings with the destruction of basic decency and family unit... we could use it to degrade homosexuals. If I had the money, I'd open up an abortion clinic just for women who said they had a gay baby. And at first, the useful idiot liberals would LOVE it. They'd dance in joy at the irony like that bumper sticker "I hope the next child you don't abort is a gay, liberal, atheist". But then even their dumb asses would start to figure out the implications. That I'm REWARDING hatred toward homosexuals, even if it's all based on a lie. There's no real way for me to prove a gay fetus from a straight, but it doesn't matter, because it's already implanted in their subconscious that being gay makes you inferior, because you're aborting them. Thats how humans got conditioned to this point to begin with. Mostly because an elite few want power, rather then to enforce morality.
As far as the death penalty, I'm against that too. I'm against any organized judiciary system. I'd rather people run wild in the streets, hacking each other up with machetes, then risk being deemed unfit to live by society or by some pretentious judge. I can deal with death, but I can't deal with class struggle being the cause of death. There's no reason I or anyone else should have to die because others deemed it so. Someone should have to WORK to see me die. They should have to get up off their ass and ****ing kill me themselves. Besides... every communist revolutionary has tried something. Mao tried to appeal to third world peasants, Lenin tried a vanguard party monopoly, Trotsky tried appealing to your typical uneducated middle class citizen for direct democracy, Stalin tried appealing to the same demographic for nationalism, and Marx said to appeal to the working class of the world... But not one of them has attempted to appeal to the criminal class. A class that makes up more then twenty percent of our nations, and exist solely to be used for cheap labor by bourgeois, and because deep down, there's a lot of sociopaths in the world who just aren't happy unless they're enslaving and hurting other people. We enjoy having prisoners so we can say we're better then them. Society is a sick game played by sado-masochists. I do not support jail, I do not support the death penalty, I BARELY support psychological conditioning. I'd rather deal with rapists and murderers then have some jackass getting to take a gallant stroll on his high horse.
In fact, in the book I am currently working on, I promote reproduction even by less then "welcome" means... IE: tricking a girl into sleeping with you, non-consenting physical coercion, whatever it takes to conceive a child. I do not condone sex of any kind that results otherwise. Because any sex that doesn't see a baby at the end of it, is just giving into your programming. That hedonistic, unthinking, shit programming, where you live your life, running around, trying to impress other people, desperately clinging to order, law, and rules... begging, pleading for mercy. As your world gets smaller and smaller as they suffocate you with higher and higher standards. Sex has become a drug. An escape from reality. People who have sex outside of reproduction may as well be mentally retarded. Divorced from any concept of what's going on. If you want to forget, you're useless not only to me, but to yourself.
Sex for me isn't a game, it isn't about status, or enjoyment... it's a weapon. Be it the weapon of fighting against my class struggle as the declared inferior gender by our feminist society, or a weapon in producing enough God damn kids to destabilize said society. You want to know how tyrannical life really is? I have to do Google search just to spell half of the words in the English language. I cannot even fathom grammar without a dictionary by my side. Such is a language created by rich white slavers to insure they were the only ones who knew how to communicate beyond the most primitive of desires and needs... Meanwhile, the majority of people's ability to coherently express any emotion or thought is degrading. Not JUST because of the convenience of Twitter and Facebook as instant transmission of words, but because they actively propagate it by character limits, and controlling the flow of information via "moderation". If others can decide what you see and write, your mind is under attack. They are raping you. You are in danger.
Be pro-choice for something tangible.