Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
I wouldn't, since Dooku is a fallible third party character, knows almost nothing about Sideous' true powers, and is manipulative by nature.
True. But it seems to be what the CW series is hinting at through Dooku's musings. And that episode was written by none other than Lucas's own daughter.
On the other hand I dnt remember any character or narrator anywhere in the whole EU even hinting at Ventress having achieved or surpassed Maul in terms of combat or power.
Originally posted by Black bolt zMaul got defeated by ob1 as a pprentice while ventrees would have killed both anakin and ob1 at the sam time in a saber/force battle if it were not for the inferance of Dooku!so
Maul>Ventress.Maul wins.
ventress>maul
ob1>maul
anakin>maul
maul is not that good!I dont know why everyone loves him so much!
Originally posted by Q99speaking of wich!!Mual was so loyal it is said he would never confront his master unless profoked(ALOT)!!
He's a Sith, of course he wants to defeat Sidious.Sidious's plan puts Sidious in charge of the new Empire. While being second to that isn't bad, he wants to be the one in charge.
In one of the novelizations, Maul did become overcome with rage, and tried to strike Palaptine down (obviously to no avail.) However, that was a one-time outburst that Maul would never try to repeat again.
In many way's Maul was the perfect apprentice. He was obediant, loyal, trust worthy, etc. - very much like a whipped puppy who followed Palpatine's every whim... He just wasn't the perfect Sith apprentice, because it was very unlikely that he would ever attempt to rise against his master for his own personal gains.
Originally posted by Galan007
In one of the novelizations, Maul did become overcome with rage, and tried to strike Palaptine down (obviously to no avail.) However, that was a one-time outburst that Maul would never try to repeat again.In many way's Maul was the perfect apprentice. He was obediant, loyal, trust worthy, etc. - very much like a whipped puppy who followed Palpatine's every whim... He just wasn't the perfect Sith apprentice, because it was very unlikely that he would ever attempt to rise against his master for his own personal gains.
But wasn't that the whole point of the Rule Of Two?? So the Sith wouldn't fight each other. The apprentice would eventually become Master when his Master died and then take on a new apprentice.
I just dnt get why a Sith Lord would want an apprentice whose willing to betray them.. Just does not make sense to me.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
But wasn't that the whole point of the Rule Of Two?? So the Sith wouldn't fight each other. The apprentice would eventually become Master when his Master died and then take on a new apprentice.I just dnt get why a Sith Lord would want an apprentice whose willing to betray them.. Just does not make sense to me.
Ambition drives the Sith. To deny that is to deny a lot of what makes them strong, they'd be a shadow of the Sith without.
The Rule of Two isn't for ensuring the two don't fight ever, but so that conflict occurs at the proper moment, in a way that strengthens the Sith in the long run. If the apprentice loses and dies, then they weren't ready, and if they never get strong enough to try then they should be replaced with a stronger apprentice anyway.
An apprentice strong enough to win though is properly a master and should be taking on a new student to further the teachings of the Sith. If the old Master is still alive at that point... well, there'll be trouble and you'd start having a sith order on your hands, or at the very least multiple small groups with competing plans rather than all under control of one master.
There's none of the length rivalries and sith-on-sith wars, just the building of power between generations and the moment of conflict when Master and Apprentice finally decide who will take the next apprentice.
Also, not all Sith will eventually die on their own. Immortality is a technique several Sith have sought and even claimed. Andeddu, Muur, Krayt, even Bane went after it.
Yes, it makes it so that two lesser Sith can't gang up on a stronger one and kill him, thus weakening the Sith collectively as a whole. The Rule of Two forces the Sith to continually get stronger or more cunning on an individual level for every generation. The new Sith Lord will always be more powerful or more cunning(lingas) than the last. In theory at least.
Ironically the apprentice still teams up with a second person more often than not, e.g. Dooku + Ventress/ Savage Opress, Vader + Starkiller/Luke. Only two actually followed it to its evental conclusion, Zannah and Sidious, and Sidious threw it away almost completely with his many, many Hands, faux apprentices etc.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Ironically the apprentice still teams up with a second person more often than not, e.g. Dooku + Ventress/ Savage Opress, Vader + Starkiller/Luke. Only two actually followed it to its evental conclusion, Zannah and Sidious, and Sidious threw it away almost immediately with his many, many Hands, faux apprentices etc.
Presumably a lot of the intermediates between Bane and Palp did too.
The team-up seems like it's the refuge of the "Glass Ceiling" Sith- Apprentices who have reached their max and still not surpassed their master. They're kept around because the Master can use them for year without being overthrown until they find a better apprentice. And of course, the teamup is generally a nice signal that "hey, time to off this apprentice and maybe pick up the person they were trying to recruit."
One side effect is it does mean that the new apprentice very rarely has the time to become a fully realized sith. Dark Jedi and people with high potential, but Ventress or Opress couldn't be taught all the best sith secrets before the attempt is made, because that'd tip the boss off. So while not exactly one on one, the Dark Lord Apprentice has to go in with someone who's at most a newbie apprentice in general.
Unless they *are* clever enough to train someone for a decade under their bosses' nose, in which case it counts as a proper cleverness win, I'd say.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes, it makes it so that two lesser Sith can't gang up on a stronger one and kill him, thus weakening the Sith collectively as a whole. The Rule of Two forces the Sith to continually get stronger or more cunning on an individual level for every generation. The new Sith Lord will always be more powerful or more cunning(lingas) than the last. In theory at least.Ironically the apprentice still teams up with a second person more often than not, e.g. Dooku + Ventress/ Savage Opress, Vader + Starkiller/Luke. Only two actually followed it to its evental conclusion, Zannah and Sidious, and Sidious threw it away almost completely with his many, many Hands, faux apprentices etc.
Although Sidious killing his Master in his sleep hardly proved him to be more powerful.. Bit of a cheap shot