Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Huh? She doesn't need to be in lightsaber range for Vader to take her out of the fight. And Zannah is not powerful enough to shield both herself and Cognus at the same time from someone as powerful as Vader. Vader is one of the most powerful sith in the entire mythos. Zannah would be very stupid to divert her force defenses on Cognus.
How-so? She defends against Vader's attack, and then... what? How is it any worse for her to step in the way than defending against an attack directed against her in the first place? It doesn't leave openings to do that.
Then Cognus throws a force attack and Zannah attacks Vader while he's dealing with that, giving her an edge in their fight.
One second is not enough for Zannah to do any real damage to Vader especially if there is distance between them, unless you're saying Zannah will blitz Vader, which I highly doubt.
One second is also not enough time to kill Cognus at a distance.
And one second of ignoring a powerful foe who's directly attacking can wound anyone in a lightsaber duel, or take some damage in a ranged force fight, depending on the range they're at.
"Attack someone who's leaving a one-second opening," is not a blitz, it's just not letting an opponent be unmolested just because they're attacking someone else.
Seriously?
Yes, seriously.
This is the person who Bane and Zannah both thought should be next in line of the Sith. She has nifty powers.
Originally posted by ares834I think you should read the book agian.Bane slaughterd all of the jedi besides one who blocked his own lightining agianst him.rreeaadd up
Yep, the movie shows us that Vader can't block lightning when he is hauling a Sith Lord over his head with one hand... Not to mention Sidious's lightning is arguably more impressive than Bane's and far more impressive than Zannah's (in fact I don't recall her ever evan using it)...Except in that case the dark forces on the planet were uniquely locked away. Not to mention these dark forces were strong enough to wipe out nearly all life on the planet... Yeah, somehow I doubt Zannah is going to be able to use that move here.
Yeah they do... It's called killing Zannah. Not to mention these tendrils, if I'm not mistaken, aren't shown to pierce inorganic material meaning they would be ineffective against Vader. And once again there is no reason to believe she can use them here.
Lol what? Bane with Orbalisks is good but not invincible. Four Jedi were able to take him out and only two of those were really any use in combat. No way is it spite.
I really don't see much of a chance for Zannah. Vader has insane feats such as shaking the entire Jedi Temple, overloading lightsabers, and using the DS to reduce people to ash. He may not "crush" her but he should win solidly.
Which, going by feats, is untrue. Bane was able to hold her back merely with his lightning. Her only chance to beat Bane was using her dues ex machina powers on Ambria.
Vader has far better feats... So we do know that he is much more powerful.
Originally posted by Nephthys
He couldn't block Mareks either.
He didn't need to. He tanked it like a pro and Marek's lightning is powerful enough to kill a rancor. And the CW shows Anakin can block lightning.
❌
Sidious's lightning has reduced Sith Wyrms to ash and killed antire legions of storm troopers.
It being locked away in fact shows that she can use it. If all the darkside was locked away in Lake Nath, and Zannah drew the power for her tentacles 'from the soil and stone of Ambria itself' she wasn't drawing on the planet-wiping power.
The lake itself was a super concentrated source of the dark side and Thon drave all the dark power into the lake as evident by Bane's relization of the immense dark power but his inability to access it.
'The material of his clothes melted away as if it had been splashed with acid. A chunk of flesh beneath simply dissolved, and Bane screamed in agony.'
Ah thanks.
Zannah has replicated those feats.
Really? Where has she shaken a temple or overloaded a lightsaber or turn someone into ash. Her only really impressive feat is the tentacles.
Quote for the ash part?
No quote. It was from one of the Marvel Droid comics. I'll look for a scan later.
'Merely with his lightning?' As opposed to what, his dick?Also, quote?
As opposed to his lightsaber which he lost at the time. Zannah came at him with everything she had and Bane held her off with only his force powers.
No he doesn't and no we don't. Zannah defeated Bane people. Stop underestimating her.
Zannah was completley overwhemed by Bane until she pulled out her dues ex machnia powers.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Bane's lightning can reduce people to ash.
Quote? I recall it burning people but never turning people into ash.
Originally posted by Naga Sado
I think you should read the book agian.Bane slaughterd all of the jedi besides one who blocked his own lightining agianst him.rreeaadd up
Maybe you should reread the book. Bane doesn't slaughter anyone until Zannah sneaks in and kills the most powerful Jedi fighting Bane... And yet he still is almost defeated by Worror. Luckily he had Zannah there to kill Johun after he was knocked out.
Originally posted by ares834 [/i]
[B]Yep, the movie shows us that Vader can't block lightning when he is hauling a Sith Lord over his head with one hand... Not to mention Sidious's lightning is arguably more impressive than Bane's and far more impressive than Zannah's (in fact I don't recall her ever evan using it)...
Read the last chapter of Dark Lord. Vader knows he has no defense against sith lightning. According to the Holocron Continuity Database, only movie canon supercedes the books. I don't recall him ever blocking lightning in the movies and the books state he can't handle it.
We don't see Zannah didn't use it in the books but as a child she was incredibly impressed the first time she witnessed Bane using lightning and yearned the ability for herself. She would've been more eager to learn this more than anything else...good chance it happened
Originally posted by ares834
Except in that case the dark forces on the planet were uniquely locked away. Not to mention these dark forces were strong enough to wipe out nearly all life on the planet... Yeah, somehow I doubt Zannah is going to be able to use that move here.
So we're to assume Sith sorcery only worked because "these dark forces were uniquely locked away"? On worlds such as Korriban, Ziost, Vjun and other's steeped in the dark side, Sith have always drawn power from the planet without respect to the specific circumstance you point out. For you to assume otherwise seems self-serving.
Originally posted by ares834
Yeah they do... It's called killing Zannah. Not to mention these tendrils, if I'm not mistaken, aren't shown to pierce inorganic material meaning they would be ineffective against Vader. And once again there is no reason to believe she can use them here.
See Nephthys post directly following your own.
Originally posted by ares834
Lol what? Bane with Orbalisks is good but not invincible. Four Jedi were able to take him out and only two of those were really any use in combat. No way is it spite.
Actually, Bane with Orbalisks was invincible. These 2 "useful Jedi" you speak of were Raskta Lsu, Weapons Master of the Jedi Order and recognized as the greatest Jedi duelist of her time, and her personally trained padawan Xaj, who was more physically imposing than Bane. In addition, they had the benefit of Jedi Master Worrors battle meditation empowering them, and 2 more Jedi, one a master....AND THEY STILL COULD NOT DEFEAT HIM DUE TO THE IMPENETRABLE ORBALISKS.
In the end, Bane fried himself with his own lightning. It's all in the book.
Originally posted by ares834
I really don't see much of a chance for Zannah. Vader has insane feats such as shaking the entire Jedi Temple, overloading lightsabers, and using the DS to reduce people to ash. He may not "crush" her but he should win solidly.
One on one, Vader takes Zannah a vast majority. I'll give you that she needs specific circumstances to stay in the fight for long.
Originally posted by ares834
Which, going by feats, is untrue. Bane was able to hold her back merely with his lightning. Her only chance to beat Bane was using her dues ex machina powers on Ambria.
Are you speaking of when they were doing battle in the narrow hallways of the prison on Doan? I don't remember it being so easy for him to survive. One of us needs to read the book again...
Vader has far better feats... So we do know that he is much more powerful.
Touche, Vader has better feats. Just none against a Sith.
Originally posted by Darth Creasy
[B]Read the last chapter of Dark Lord. Vader knows he has no defense against sith lightning. According to the Holocron Continuity Database, only movie canon supercedes the books. I don't recall him ever blocking lightning in the movies and the books state he can't handle it.
Except he has been shown to block lightning in various sources including a T-canon one. Furthermore, nothing in the movies show he is unable to block lightning.
We don't see Zannah didn't use it in the books but as a child she was incredibly impressed the first time she witnessed Bane using lightning and yearned the ability for herself. She would've been more eager to learn this more than anything else...good chance it happened
So you are assuming she can use force lightning... Weak. Regardless, Vader can tank Marek's lightning unless her "lightning" is very potent Vader won't be badly damaged.
So we're to assume Sith sorcery only worked because "these dark forces were uniquely locked away"? On worlds such as Korriban, Ziost, Vjun and other's steeped in the dark side, Sith have always drawn power from the planet without respect to the specific circumstance you point out. For you to assume otherwise seems self-serving.
No. We are realizing that the dark power on Ambria was so powerful it wiped out all life and prevented anything from growing.
Actually, Bane with Orbalisks was invincible
Worror begs to differ. As does Bane's exposed head.
These 2 "useful Jedi" you speak of were Raskta Lsu, Weapons Master of the Jedi Order and recognized as the greatest Jedi duelist of her time, and her personally trained padawan Xaj, who was more physically imposing than Bane.
Weapon master huh? I guess that's supposed to impress me. But Vader himself has seemingly effortlessly held defeated a weapon master. As for Xaj he never engaged Bane, I was talking about Farfalla.
In addition, they had the benefit of Jedi Master Worrors battle meditation empowering them, and 2 more Jedi, one a master....AND THEY STILL COULD NOT DEFEAT HIM DUE TO THE IMPENETRABLE ORBALISKS.
Nor could he defeat them without Zannah's help. As for the other Jedi Johun... THe guy is the biggest joke of a Jedi I have ever seen.
In the end, Bane fried himself with his own lightning. It's all in the book.
Lucky for Bane he had Zannah to protect his body from Johun.
Are you speaking of when they were doing battle in the narrow hallways of the prison on Doan? I don't remember it being so easy for him to survive. One of us needs to read the book again...
Yes. And I never said it was easy for him.
Originally posted by ares834
He didn't need to. He tanked it like a pro and Marek's lightning is powerful enough to kill a rancor. And the CW shows Anakin can block lightning.
I wasn't suggesting he was incapable of blocking lightning straight out, just that he dis not demonstrate the ability to block Marek-level lightning. Banes is much stronger.
Originally posted by ares834
Sidious's lightning has reduced Sith Wyrms to ash and killed antire legions of storm troopers.
Again, Bane has replicated those feats.
Originally posted by ares834
The lake itself was a super concentrated source of the dark side and Thon drave all the dark power into the lake as evident by Bane's relization of the immense dark power but his inability to access it.
Exactly. The power was sealed and not even Bane could access it. This, plus the fact that the narration describes Zannah drawing the power out of the 'soul and stone of Ambria itself' show that she was not drawing the immense Dark side of the Lake, but whatever energy was left outside of it/had built up after Thons death.
Originally posted by ares834
Ah thanks.
yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss.
Originally posted by ares834
Really? Where has she shaken a temple or overloaded a lightsaber or turn someone into ash. Her only really impressive feat is the tentacles.
She defended herself from the planet-wide Force Storm Bane unleashed upon the Jedi (better than all 3 of the above imo) and disintergrated her cousins arm instinctively, without any Force training at all when she was like, 12. Its safe to say she has grown in power and skill since then.
Originally posted by ares834
No quote. It was from one of the Marvel Droid comics. I'll look for a scan later.
You better. Or I'll.... do... something!
Originally posted by ares834
As opposed to his lightsaber which he lost at the time. Zannah came at him with everything she had and Bane held her off with only his force powers.
Your own quote says that there was nothing 'mere' about it. Bane was retreating and on the defencive the entire fight. Hardly an indication of massive superiority.
Plus she, y'know, beat him later on.
Originally posted by ares834
Zannah was completley overwhemed by Bane until she pulled out her dues ex machnia powers.
Zannah was only overwhelmed by him in lightsaber combat, which he was obviously superior in. Outside of that the duel was extremely close.
She won though.
Originally posted by ares834
Quote? I recall it burning people but never turning people into ash.
'Bane didn't take the time to revel in the fear of his fallen enemies. Before they even hit the ground he'd turned his attention to the third opponent, unleashing a storm of Sith lightning that reduced the riders to ash and the drexl into a hunk of charred and smoking flesh that dropped from the sky.'
Originally posted by Nephthys
Exactly. The power was sealed and not even Bane could access it. This, plus the fact that the narration describes Zannah drawing the power out of the 'soul and stone of Ambria itself' show that she was not drawing the immense Dark side of the Lake, but whatever energy was left outside of it/had built up after Thons death.
Cool... I'm still unsure how this shows she can use it on Vjun. As I said Ambria has an immense amount of dark power on it. Enough to wipe out all life on it and steralize the ground.
She defended herself from the planet-wide Force Storm Bane unleashed upon the Jedi (better than all 3 of the above imo) and disintergrated her cousins arm instinctively, without any Force training at all when she was like, 12. Its safe to say she has grown in power and skill since then.
The defense is pretty cool I'll admit but it's difficult to measure the power required to defend against it and shaking the entire Jedi Temple (that thing is huge!) is far more impressive IMO. Vader also contends with Marek who brushes aside Blockade Runners in TFU 2.
You better. Or I'll.... do... something!
Of course how applicable this is in a fight is hard to tell? IE is it easy to defend against or not? Regardless it's just badass and how many other Sith Lord can say they reduced people to ash through dark side Powah!
Your own quote says that there was nothing 'mere' about it. Bane was retreating and on the defencive the entire fight. Hardly an indication of massive superiority.
He was holding her off with only his force powers. Not a good showing for Zannah if she is his equal or superior as you seem to believe.
She won though.
Through her dues ex machina powers that as you showed relied on Ambira itself.
Originally posted by ares834
That is pretty impressive. I wonder if that would be a very advanced and skilled feat of TK. Or did Vader use the force to heat up the troopers body heat to such a high degree that it turned him to ash.
I am more impressed with Vader's higher showings than I am with Darth Bane's. I think Bane and Vader are much more closer in power than Vader and Zannah, so I don't see her standing up to Vader for very long unless she somehow conjures up something with her sorcery.
Cool... I'm still unsure how this shows she can use it on Vjun. As I said Ambria has an immense amount of dark power on it. Enough to wipe out all life on it and steralize the ground.
Uh, yeah. Unless I'm really messing things up though, the dark side energies on the planet were sealed in Lake Nath. So the large power you're talking about wouldn't be available to Zannah, would they?
The defense is pretty cool I'll admit but it's difficult to measure the power required to defend against it and shaking the entire Jedi Temple (that thing is huge!) is far more impressive IMO. Vader also contends with Marek who brushes aside Blockade Runners in TFU 2.
Well then it just comes down to personal opinion. I see defending against the Force Storm as much more impressive especially when she did it unconsciously, untrained and at such a young age.
Of course how applicable this is in a fight is hard to tell? IE is it easy to defend against or not? Regardless it's just badass and how many other Sith Lord can say they reduced people to ash through dark side Powah!
No offense, but I can't see what he's doing in that tiny picture. Can you find a bigger one? Also Bane has also disintergrated beings with his TK and Zannah is roughly on par with him in Force Strength.
He was holding her off with only his force powers. Not a good showing for Zannah if she is his equal or superior as you seem to believe.
Personally I fail to see how thats a bad showing. His Force powers are arguably greater than his lightsaber skills. He would definately be one of the beings i would say can get by without a saber.
Through her dues ex machina powers that as you showed relied on Ambira itself.
She can use the same powers here though, so I fail to see the problem.