Free World Charter

I wouldn't say control, but an environment to suit the organism to suppress certain behaviours and cause others to flourish would be much better.

Human adult psychology is definitely rooted in childhood (or more specifically, past experiences), everyone in psychology admits that.

There's also the Dutch hunger winter crisis (I think that's what it's called) where foetuses had fat storing genetic material (different genes) due to the lack of food for their mothers in the Netherlands (environment). And there are cases which link stress during pregnancy to addiction.

Environment IS huge.

Originally posted by lord xyz
I wouldn't say control, but an environment to suit the organism to suppress certain behaviours and cause others to flourish would be much better.

Human adult psychology is definitely rooted in childhood (or more specifically, past experiences), everyone in psychology admits that.

There's also the Dutch hunger winter crisis (I think that's what it's called) where foetuses had fat storing genetic material (different genes) due to the lack of food for their mothers in the Netherlands (environment). And there are cases which link stress during pregnancy to addiction.

Environment IS huge.

yes, of course it is, and the "dutch hunger" thing is called epigenetics

I'm more criticizing the more extreme points you are making

1) you can never control the environment enough to get rid of the things that motivate violence (you will never get wives not to cheat, etc)

2) there will always be criminal activity

3) some people are violent based on biology

really, most of what you are saying I don't disagree with, just more at the fringe where you seem to think you could eliminate all violence for all people because it is somehow possible to control their environments to such a degree.

Originally posted by inimalist
yes, of course it is, and the "dutch hunger" thing is called epigenetics

I'm more criticizing the more extreme points you are making

1) you can never control the environment enough to get rid of the things that motivate violence (you will never get wives not to cheat, etc)

2) there will always be criminal activity

3) some people are violent based on biology

really, most of what you are saying I don't disagree with, just more at the fringe where you seem to think you could eliminate all violence for all people because it is somehow possible to control their environments to such a degree.

...I have little basis for this belief.

do you have any evidence for it?

because epigenetics aren't the same as a programming code for organisms. It allows different expressions in genes that already exist within the genome, so like, more or less fat on a baby. Violence is something that is inherent to almost all organisms. In theory, epigenetics would give you a better chance of evolving wings in humans than it would eliminating violence

This has become really off-topic, I think it should be it the Gilligan thread tbh.

The biggest problem again is that technology is not at the point to do everything for us so we still need humans to work.

And even when we don't need humans to work, that does not mean that everyone can have everything they want, we will be limited by logistics and shortage of resources and time just the same. Making life unequal for people, with no possibility for them to do anything about it.

Our understanding of technology is far past the point for automation and sustainability, plus, it isn't hard to replicate what already exists, like those cybernetic waiters I told you about in your own country. If those blueprints were told to everyone, say, posted on a message board, they'd be everywhere.

The world is hugely abundant in energy.

There's this idea of want vs. need. Why would you want something inefficient?

Yes, the problem is people don't want change. Yes, the problem is people are immature in their understandings. Yes, people ignore what is really relevant to human development.

That doesn't really lie with me.

What about variety? I have no idea. Each city living differently but openly?

I don't know, I think when proposing a system you need to take into account how people think and are. I mean you can try to change them, but your proposals aren't feasible with people the way they are today (and technology as limited as it is today).

Originally posted by Bardock42
I don't know, I think when proposing a system you need to take into account how people think and are. I mean you can try to change them, but your proposals aren't feasible with people the way they are today (and technology as limited as it is today).

You know, I really hope the monetary system fails. Our motives will certainly change when there's no artificial credit in dominating those we can.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Plus, I don't see your logic when you say you want to attain more than your peers. What will that even achieve in a world of such high abundance?

I am disturbed by your existence.

Try not to be; there are a lot of us out there. Frankly I'm surprised I've found so many who would admit it. Every human has the capacity for (and has demonstrated many times in their lives'😉 greed and jealousy. Even if it doesn't make sense to them or an outsider looking in. Those two traits, combined with the fear of loss (of anything) is what destroys any utopia. Humans just aren't capable of not coveting things they don't need. You don't need to have a monetary system to f*ck people over.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Try not to be; there are a lot of us out there. Frankly I'm surprised I've found so many who would admit it. Every human has the capacity for (and has demonstrated many times in their lives'😉 greed and jealousy. Even if it doesn't make sense to them or an outsider looking in. Those two traits, combined with the fear of loss (of anything) is what destroys any utopia. Humans just aren't capable of not coveting things they don't need. You don't need to have a monetary system to f*ck people over.

Originally posted by lord xyz
So what happens when you have more resources and wealth than any other human being? What would you do then?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Enjoy having them. What else? Not everyone requires constant progression.

When it comes to wealth you have to progress in order to stay still.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Enjoy having them. What else? Not everyone requires constant progression.

Originally posted by lord xyz
So what happens when you have more resources and wealth than any other human being? What would you do then?

Most likely situation is that you'll end up suspecting everyone of coveting your possessions and try to stay on top through any means necessary.

Or just sit on your hands while your fortune decays.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
All down hill from there.

Most likely situation is that you'll end up suspecting everyone of coveting your possessions and try to stay on top through any means necessary.

Or just sit on your hands while your fortune decays.

It's just another way of gambling; not that productive for mankind.

Originally posted by lord xyz
It's just another way of gambling; not that productive for mankind.

And it's all the people who value that system and what it's brought us to that will cling to it for dear life, because to do what you and that Irishman advocate, would bring it all tumbling down. Besides, to do what you advocate would require convincing billions of people that they should all give up on a fundamental core way of life because what they're doing is "bad and unfair". Considering that Bono can't even get the world to give two shits about the starving dead in Africa, you'll never get those same people to give up on their very way of life.

I'll give you this though: credit is a bit of a b*tch.

EDIT: F*ck that's long!