Is Revan a better model of what PT Anakin should have been?

Originally posted by Korto Vos
DISCLAIMER: I feel like this thread or its contents might have been made or discussed earlier, but I was unable to find anything similar. Pardon me if I repeat something.

----------------------------------------------------------

I always wondered if KOTOR was Bioware’s approach as to what Anakin Skywalker should have been in the PT.

In the Prequel Trilogy, especially in AOTC, Anakin is depicted as querulous, creepy, arrogant, and rapacious. His attitude doesn’t improve in ROTS, except that he has become extremely gullible. His fear of losing Padme, ultimately a product of his unsympathetic personality, leads to his fall to the Dark Side. There is almost nothing ‘tragic’ about his downfall; yes, he wanted to save the one he loved. However, he was blinded by intoxicating, unnatural attachment.

Revan, on the other hand, is just as talented as Anakin (except in Force potential, since Anakin had more midi-chlorians). Yet, he is described as charismatic, inquisitive, and having tremendous compassion for the Republic and its people (see his reaction to the massacre on Cathar). He turns his back on the Jedi Council and leads a victorious campaign against the Mandalorians. However, the madness of war drives him into becoming callous and calculating. Nevertheless, even when he fell to the Dark Side, he intended to establish a long-lasting Empire that would have both economic and militant stability, thereby ensuring peace. This seems more in-line with the persona of the OT Darth Vader, who, while craving power, sought order and a stronger galaxy (though that Sith notion was truly unrighteous and tyrannical)

Similar to [B]Raskolnikov from Crime & Punishment, Revan turned against the Jedi Code (law) for a higher social good (to save the Republic from the Mandalorians). However, his altruistic nature combined with an idealistic egoism became twisted in the war; he started to justify his ruthless tactics and crimes. Ultimately, he saw people, and soon entire planets, as expendable, thereby leading to the chain of events that led him to the mantle of Dark Lord of the Sith.

Revan’s fall was how Anakin’s should have been treated: more as a result of the chaos of the Clone Wars coupled with the imminent loss of Padme. Anakin should have deceived himself as a Napoleonic hero, and ultimately have fallen to the dangers of this line of thought. His fall in ROTS was weak, sudden, and not tragic. [/B]

An excellent observation. I especially agree with your comment on how there's no ragedy to Anakin's fall. Distressed Watcher (from Guy With The Glasses) summed it up best in his superb review of the PT.

"He (Anakin) was a Sith from the word go."

My only criticism is this bit;

"However, he was blinded by intoxicating, unnatural attachment."

Replace the word "attachment" with "obsession" and you'd have said it perfectly.

Because that was what blinded Anakin. Obsession. Not the same thing as attachment at all.

I think "intoxicating, unnatural" attachment, is a decent synonym for "obsession".

Ragedy?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I think "intoxicating, unnatural" attachment, is a decent synonym for "obsession".

Yeah but the way the sentence is written seems to me like he's claiming ALL attachments are "intoxicating" and "unnatural" which of course is complete nonsense.

I'm not saying that's what he meant, but it reads that way to me.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Ragedy?

This may come as a shock to you, but I'm not perfect. I sometimes make spelling mistakes when I type.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Yeah but the way the sentence is written seems to me like he's claiming ALL attachments are "intoxicating" and "unnatural" which of course is complete nonsense.

I'm not saying that's what he meant, but it reads that way to me.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
This may come as a shock to you, but I'm not perfect. I sometimes make spelling mistakes when I type.

chilled monkey
This may come as a shock to you, but I'm not perfect. I sometimes make spelling mistakes when I type.

Spoiler:
Gideon, STFU.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
So... what was the word. Raggedy? As in, Raggedy Ann?

Tragedy. Dunkass.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
So... what was the word. Raggedy? As in, Raggedy Ann?

Points for thinking outside the box, but no. It was tragedy.

Good try though.

Originally posted by Eminence
It's been seven years. You will learn to laugh at our jokes.

Sorry.

Originally posted by Eminence

Spoiler:
Gideon, STFU.

lolwut

Originally posted by Korto Vos
1. Possibly. However Skywalker was likely conceived by midi-chlorians themselves ("vessel of pure Force"😉, a phenomena never been heard before in the Jedi Order (meaning his body is inundated with midi-chlorians). Furthermore, his maximum Force potential is said to be twice that of Sidious, who is arguably the most powerful Sith of all time. His midi-chlorian count is also higher than Yoda's, who is said to have been the mightiest Jedi in the Order up to the PT era. Unless you can argue Yoda hadn't attained his potential yet, it's positive no known prior Jedi had a Force potential higher than Anakin's. Finally, Luke Skywalker is said to have a Force potential roughly on par with his father's, and he ends up as arguably the strongest Jedi of all time. Therefore, the Chosen One's Force potential must have been off-the-charts.

These three points demonstrate that Anakin Skywalker, more or less, probably had the highest Force potential.

In The Approaching Storm, it's noted that Anakin had the potential to be destined for greatness, but lacked the discipline, sacrifice, and focus to achieve his true potential. While not an absolute statement, it does correctly reflect that Anakin Skywalker, potential or no, had a long way to go before he filled his cup.

And considering Skywalker's feats are easily replicated and/or surpassed regularly by some folks right up to RotS when he becomes half the man he used to be, I'd say his potential warrants nothing.

2. More Lucas bullsh1t to me. Even if he doesn't see it as "his world," he still green-lights everything that happens in the EU, and periodically intervenes in EU development.

No really, he doesn't care. The most EU he's been immersed in was Aayla Secura, and he picked her out based on looks alone. He does not follow it and he does not lay down framework or absolutes for it. If he did, it would be less of a shitstorm than it already is, of course.

3. Anakin's ragestomp of Dooku was a pretty good showing, among other things.

It's his highest showing in many ways, seeing as he was unable to replicate it before or since. Obi-Wan, on a tier well below Dooku, was able to stalemate Anakin in both Force and saber combat, even though Anakin with his OMFG Furce potenshul and 1337 sabur skilz had the clear advantage.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
In The Approaching Storm, it's noted that Anakin had the potential to be destined for greatness, but lacked the discipline, sacrifice, and focus to achieve his true potential. While not an absolute statement, it does correctly reflect that Anakin Skywalker, potential or no, had a long way to go before he filled his cup.

And considering Skywalker's feats are easily replicated and/or surpassed regularly by some folks right up to RotS when he becomes half the man he used to be, I'd say his potential warrants nothing.

No really, he doesn't care. The most EU he's been immersed in was Aayla Secura, and he picked her out based on looks alone. He does not follow it and he does not lay down framework or absolutes for it. If he did, it would be less of a shitstorm than it already is, of course.

It's his highest showing in many ways, seeing as he was unable to replicate it before or since. Obi-Wan, on a tier well below Dooku, was able to stalemate Anakin in both Force and saber combat, even though Anakin with his OMFG Furce potenshul and 1337 sabur skilz had the clear advantage.

1. LOL, then I rest my case? The whole origin of this mini-debate was your comment that Anakin may not have had the highest Force potential. I don't really care how far he had to go before his cup was filled. My whole argument was that Revan was as talented or even more talented than Anakin except that Skywalker had ultimately greater Force potential.

2. Well, he's still the dictator of LucasArts and Star Wars. If he stated that a supermassive black hole Lv. 1000 ate up that entire galaxy after the Cade Skywalker storyline, then that's what would happen.

3. People in this forum give no credit to Obi-Wan, man. I swear, I probably debated for him against some of you guys years back, but the opinions still stayed the same after I returned.

He's an amazing defensive swordsman who got Force pwned by Dooku?

*sigh* Man, I don't bother anymore.

Sure, Dooku is better than Kenobi. But the whole mentality that Dooku can beat Kenobi in seconds irritates me to the core.

He's a really amazing defensive fighter who got Force pwned by Dooku and thats totally nothing to be ashamed of?

I'm just going work on my Yoda argument now. I have to make up something in 40 min for my opening post.

Good luck. Voldemort FTW.

Gee thanks :/

And I thought all of you would be supporting me.

I am.

Though seriously Quan's a fvcking terrible debator. You're gonna easily win.

🙂

I'm pretty rusty. And without EU on my side, it's going to be a bit iffy.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
🙂

I'm pretty rusty. And without EU on my side, it's going to be a bit iffy.

In Dark Rendezvous, Yoda seals a vaccum in space using the Force.

Vacuum > Voldepussy. Just saying.

Yeah, but this is movie-only. There is no demonstration of Yoda sealing a vacuum in the films.