Sidious and Luke Run the Gauntlet
DE Sidious and LOTF Luke up against...
1. Exar Kun, Freedon Nadd, Ulic Qel-Droma, and Nomi Sunrider.
2. Redeemed Revan, Satele Shan, Darth Traya and Darth Malgus.
3. ROTS Yoda, Mace Windu, "1n t3h z0n3", and Dooku.
4. Bane, Zannah, Galen, Marek, Darth Caedus.
No restrictions, no rest.
Should be in the versus forum. But...
Are Sidious and Luke completely rested after each fight? Or do they only receive a short break?
1. They pass
2. Revan is the game-changer in this one. I don't feel like repeating the details in the Revan vs. Galen Marek thread, but he's obviously a very powerful Jedi, the extent of which is unknown. They will lose at 2 if they are barely rested, or they will scrape by it if they are healed sufficently (but again, dependent on Revan)
3. Did you mean to add "Zonakin" to this set? But in any case, they definitely lose here.
Really? Luke and DE Sidious are omega level Force users here, but they're just two. Against even one of the first tier opponents would require time, and against four is unfair.
Specifically:
1. Exar Kun. He's the strongest here. Explicitly one of the strongest Sith of all time due to his natural talent and exponentially-boosting Force amulets. He can cast Sith spells, fire amulet blasts, absorb attacks and what-have-you. While against both DE Sidious and Luke he'd probably fall, with the duo being assaulted by the others, he'd be a tremendous asset.
2. Freedan Nadd is incredibly powerful for a rogue Dark Sider. While not observable in life, in death his power is immense, and is noted as having killed many Jedi. While perhaps too much of an unknown to quantify beyond "really good", he still tips the balance. I doubt Sidious or Luke would instantly destroy a bonafide Dark Sider of such power while being harassed by the others.
3. Ulic, assuming for the sake of sanity that he has his Force powers, is one of the best duelists of his era. That alone could allow him to tank Sids or Luke while the others gang up on the second or assist him.
4. Nomi can sever Force powers instantly, as demonstrated on Ulic of all people. She's not the strongest element here, but assuming she can sever Force connection for either Sidious or Luke (debatable, since Kun resisted the same ability), she may decide the battle. If not, she's just another glowstick in the mix.
Apparently you do too. When did the living Exar Kun show even half the abilites he did as a spirit? Dark side tentacles, ripping souls out of bodies, burning people inside out... Comparetivly, the living Exr Kun is driven back by Ood Bnar.
There simply is no reason to believe that he is a "broken shell of himself" when he has far more impressive feats.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
2. Freedan Nadd is incredibly powerful for a rogue Dark Sider. While not observable in life, in death his power is immense, and is noted as having killed many Jedi. While perhaps too much of an unknown to quantify beyond "really good", he still tips the balance. I doubt Sidious or Luke would instantly destroy a bonafide Dark Sider of such power while being harassed by the others.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Ares apparently loves to work with assumptions.
😕
Atleast I attempted humor with the harmonica. 😛
Originally posted by ares834
Apparently you do too. When did the living Exar Kun show even half the abilites he did as a spirit? Dark side tentacles, ripping souls out of bodies, burning people inside out... Comparetivly, the living Exr Kun is driven back by Ood Bnar.There simply is no reason to believe that he is a "broken shell of himself" when he has far more impressive feats.
The entire point is that you're arguing in complete ignorance of Exar Kun's living feats, which I've demonstrated, shown scans of, and argued many times in these forums.
1. Ood Bnar did not "drive back" Exar Kun any more than a spitball slows an avalanche. He crossed blades with Kun once before being incapacitated by a Massassi warrior. Thus ended his great defense.
2. Exar Kun enacted a Sith spell and froze thousands of sentients in the Senate chamber. He then ragdolled Sylvar and used the chancellor as a sock puppet, suspending the alien with one arm at shoulder level.
3. After equipping Naga Sadow's amulet, Kun's natural anger and Force power is multiplied exponentially. He fires consecutive blasts of powerful energy which grow with each pulse, while moving to avoid retaliation from the Sith leviathan. He then turns the power on Freedan Nadd, a spirit which has shown the ability to attack Vodo across the galaxy and heal a mortally wounded Kun using the Dark Side, and with a gesture obliterates his spirit.
4. Kun resists the ancient technique that Odan-urr created and used in the war against the ancient Sith, the same technique which Nomi uses on Ulic instantly and succeeds, and then promptly gets back up and insta-kills the 500+ year old Jedi lore master.
5. Exar Kun is, along with Ulic, considered a master swordsman without peer in narration. Keep in mind saber combat is a big part of versus battles and you know, ghosts don't saber fight.
So clearly, saying Kun is more powerful as a maddened shackled spirit is missing the context.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
[B]The entire point is that you're arguing in complete ignorance of Exar Kun's living feats, which I've demonstrated, shown scans of, and argued many times in these forums.1. Ood Bnar did not "drive back" Exar Kun any more than a spitball slows an avalanche. He crossed blades with Kun once before being incapacitated by a Massassi warrior. Thus ended his great defense.
Then he turned into a giant "tree" and Exar Kun fled...
2. Exar Kun enacted a Sith spell and froze thousands of sentients in the Senate chamber. He then ragdolled Sylvar and used the chancellor as a sock puppet, suspending the alien with one arm at shoulder level.
Cool... Very useful in a fight against force users right? Oh wait, it's never shown the abilty to do so.
3. After equipping Naga Sadow's amulet, Kun's natural anger and Force power is multiplied exponentially. He fires consecutive blasts of powerful energy which grow with each pulse, while moving to avoid retaliation from the Sith leviathan. He then turns the power on Freedan Nadd, a spirit which has shown the ability to attack Vodo across the galaxy and heal a mortally wounded Kun using the Dark Side, and with a gesture obliterates his spirit.
Neither of which are nearly as impressive as ripping the spirit out of Luke Skywalker.
4. Kun resists the ancient technique that Odan-urr created and used in the war against the ancient Sith, the same technique which Nomi uses on Ulic instantly and succeeds, and then promptly gets back up and insta-kills the 500+ year old Jedi lore master.
Ulic, of course, was not shown even attempting to resist Nomi's attack as he was distraught over the killing of his brother so we don't know how difficult it is to resist.
5. Exar Kun is, along with Ulic, considered a master swordsman without peer in narration. Keep in mind saber combat is a big part of versus battles and you know, ghosts don't saber fight.
Admitedly, the one thing the living Kun has going for him is the abilty to use a saber and by "more powerful" I meant strictly in a force sense and not a combat sense.
So clearly, saying Kun is more powerful as a maddened shackled spirit is missing the context.
In all honesty, I'm not overtly impressed at least compared to his spirit form as Exar Kun showed far more abilties as a spirit. Furthermore, there is no reason to beleive the living Exar Kun even knows of the soul ripping technique as he never once demonstrated it.
Originally posted by ares834
Then he turned into a giant "tree" and Exar Kun fled...
Wtf? You realize that he turned into a tree so tough it could nearly weather the coming supernova which Exar Kun wisely avoided, right?
Did you read the comics? At all?
Cool... Very useful in a fight against force users right? Oh wait, it's never shown the abilty to do so.
You fail for two reasons: this ability is indicative of Exar Kun's relative power. The narration states he uses this "Sith spell perfectly", while just walking into the senate chamber. While maintaining the direct control of thousands of sentients, he Force pushes a Jedi like she's an insignificant flea, and then mentally dominates a man-sized sentient while dangling said sentient from his fingertips.
Clearly, he was a pushover. You win.
Neither of which are nearly as impressive as ripping the spirit out of Luke Skywalker.
Exar Kun, before "dying", knows a Sith ritual to absorb the life force of an entire race and "send his spirit racing through the cosmos", unchained. What he did to Luke Skywalker did not come out of thin air, nor evolve from his 4000 years in isolation and explicit madness.
Also, the idea that spirits, which are residual spirits of physical beings which had Force power (seeing as midi-chlorians are a symbiotic parasite of sorts that fuel the connection!), your conclusion is unsupported.
Ulic, of course, was not shown even attempting to resist Nomi's attack as he was distraught over the killing of his brother so we don't know how difficult it is to resist.
Exar Kun never showed the inclination, foresight, or movement at all to indicate he was going to resist the attack from the master who created it, yet he did. It's clearly an issue of power and/or willpower. Exar Kun confronted with master who created and perfected said ability in a war against the ancient Sith = ok. Ulic, who is attacked less quickly by the same ability by someone who's never used it before and only barely learned it = not ok.
Of the two situations, Ulic had more time to prep, so your assumption is invalid.
Admitedly, the one thing the living Kun has going for him is the abilty to use a saber and by "more powerful" I meant strictly in a force sense and not a combat sense.
Avoiding the obvious error in your line of reasoning even if only centered on Force-usage, saber combat is the most common denominator in Versus battles. Force-only battles are extremely rare and often inconclusive unless one is well above the other.
In all honesty, I'm not overtly impressed at least compared to his spirit form as Exar Kun showed far more abilties as a spirit. Furthermore, there is no reason to beleive the living Exar Kun even knows of the soul ripping technique as he never once demonstrated it.
Again, your obvious ignorance of the source material is showing through. Go re-read the comics a few times. Exar Kun demonstrated Force power levels well beyond anything shown in the comic series save for the ancient Sith, and he clearly knew how to manipulate souls seeing as he used the ability on himself, and only the timely arrival of thousands of Jedi enacting a wall of light on him ruined the ceremony and anchored him on Yavin IV.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
[B]Wtf? You realize that he turned into a tree so tough it could nearly weather the coming supernova which Exar Kun wisely avoided, right?Did you read the comics? At all?
Where does it say Ood Bar turned into a tree to survive the nova eh?
Furthermore, he kocks Exar Kun over when he turns into a tree. It as the point in time that Exaar Kun decides to leave without the lightsabers he wanted to retrieve. In otherwords, he failed in his objective while Bar was victorius in his.
Clearly, he was a pushover. You win.
I have never stated he was a pushover. Not once.
Exar Kun, before "dying", knows a Sith ritual to absorb the life force of an entire race and "send his spirit racing through the cosmos", unchained. What he did to Luke Skywalker did not come out of thin air, nor evolve from his 4000 years in isolation and explicit madness.
And notice to do this he was forced to perform a ritual and sacrafice almost all of the Massassi.
Also, the idea that spirits, which are residual spirits of physical beings which had Force power (seeing as midi-chlorians are a symbiotic parasite of sorts that fuel the connection!), your conclusion is unsupported.
What conclusion? I have never stated that all spirits are more powerful than thier former bodies only Exar Kun who, IMO, has the most impressive feat.
Which is in the end what matter is it not?
Of the two situations, Ulic had more time to prep, so your assumption is invalid.
What assumption? Ulic isn't shown attempting to block the power at all that's a fact. On the other hand, Exar Kun obviously did.
Avoiding the obvious error in your line of reasoning even if only centered on Force-usage, saber combat is the most common denominator in Versus battles. Force-only battles are extremely rare and often inconclusive unless one is well above the other.
As I said I wasn't talking about a combat perspective.
Again, your obvious ignorance of the source material is showing through. Go re-read the comics a few times. Exar Kun demonstrated Force power levels well beyond anything shown in the comic series save for the ancient Sith, and he clearly knew how to manipulate souls seeing as he used the ability on himself, and only the timely arrival of thousands of Jedi enacting a wall of light on him ruined the ceremony and anchored him on Yavin IV.
Not impressed. To perform such a feat he required the life force of an entire race. By contrast as a spirit he perfromed such a feat on Luke Skywalker without the need of such a sacrafice.
Edit: Basically when I said "powerful" I din't mean Spirit Kun would defeat living Kun. Just that I don't see living Kun has the knowledge or expertise to use such an ability simply because he did some really wacky shit as a spirit. Like I seem to recall him conjuring some dark sdie birds and other wierd shit like that.