Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I've met a *lot* of black "mammy" type women. I'd hesitate to call it particularly racist unless they're the only representative of black people in the show.
Pretty much it's a very common type of person. Virtually every black person I know, myself included has someone like that in their family or neighborhood
Originally posted by lord xyz
Dude, it's racist to say people of a certain colour of skin act a certain way.You could say impoverished, condescended mothers of African ethnicity within the United States are inclined to a specific or broad trait, but their behaviour isn't caused by them being black, which is the implication here.
Their the only black nurses I've seen on American television...
So it's racist to have a character based on a very common type of person in a culture? Maybe if all black people were that way but having a character like that isn't racist it's how people are.
They exist and are common, comedy tends to use certain types o characters they just happen to be pretty funny.
Originally posted by lord xyz
And FYI, I haven't met a single person who acts like they do in the UK.
I edited this in later.
Originally posted by jalek moyeThere's no other reason all these characters act the way they do other than the fact that they're black (and fat). It is never explained why Laverne in Scrubs and Margaret in Becker are both bible thumping loud violent attitude women.
So it's racist to have a character based on a very common type of person in a culture? Maybe if all black people were that way but having a character like that isn't racist it's how people are.They exist and are common, comedy tends to use certain types o characters they just happen to be pretty funny.
The only explanation Hollywood provides, and the only explanation you can think of is, that this is how fat black female nurses act normally, and you're going as far as to say that this is how fat black middle aged women act normally.
That's racial stereotyping.
Not really it's from experience. Maybe it's different in the UK. But in the US. It's very very common. That's why every black American movie has characters like that its literally what we grow up with and is considered normal. Sure not everyone is like that but it's very very common and every. Black person here's knows or is related to some. Most don't think it negative she's considered important in most black families and is loved
Originally posted by jalek moyeMaybe it's different in another culture?
Not really it's from experience. Maybe it's different in the UK. But in the US. It's very very common. That's why every black American movie has characters like that its literally what we grow up with and is considered normal. Sure not everyone is like that but it's very very common and every. Black person here's knows or is related to some. Most don't think it negative she's considered important in most black families and is loved
Every black person knows or is related to some?
She's considered important in most black families?
Do you seriously not see how this is racist?
Or do you think black women beat their cats whenever they do something wrong with a rolling pin on a regular basis as it's part of their community...?
Originally posted by lord xyz
Maybe it's different in another culture?Every black person knows or is related to some?
She's considered important in most black families?
Do you seriously not see how this is racist?
Or do you think black women beat their cats whenever they do something wrong with a rolling pin on a regular basis as it's part of their community...?
How is it racists its how things are here. We are racists for the fact that most black families have someone like that in them? We are racists for it being a common and respected member of the family?
If something is common in the community showing it isn't racist and I really don't get how me saying what most black Americans are exposed to is racist. You culture may be different but in mine that's one of the ways that things are no more racists then showing black youth playing basketball a lot. Which happens its not saying all do but its a very common thing.
The "mammy" archetype of black women is something most of us grew up with in black America. At least in my generation and our parents.
Basketball is not the same thing as that's an activity, not a personality or behaviour.
It's a racial stereotype, just like a comic book loving geeky white kid is a racial stereotype. Take for example, Chris in Kenan and Kel is such an obvious white stereotype, and the same argument could be made that a nervous nerdy white kid is a part of whie people's lives.
"Most black families" is racial stereotyping, and this isn't television, this is what you're saying.
Yes its a stereotype but it isn't racist. And saying most black families is true from mine and everyone i knows experience. Along with numerous black Americans. I don't see how such a common thing is considered racist when acknowledged. Saying that most black American at least know of one isn't a racist statement. Its one saying how common they are in our culture.
saying that its how all black are would be. But them being prominent and at least one for every insert how ever many is far from being racist.
Originally posted by Bardock42Well, first of all, races don't exist, and there is no biological evidence to determine a race...there's actually more genetic variation within whities than between whities and blacks. This is why we use "ethnicity" instead. I open with this because acknowledging different races as anything other than skin-deep is racist...Cultural stereotypes are culturist, I guess, but as I mentioned in earlier posts, if the only justification for the characteristics are the colour of the skin...that's racist.
What are your definitions of "racial stereotype" and "racist"?
Racism is defined as the belief that all members of a race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, esp. to distinguish as inferior or superior to other races, but not exclusively. A stereotype is defined as: A widely held but fixed and oversimplified image or idea of a particular type of person or thing. So a racial stereotype is an oversimplifying image of a race or a person of a race, specific to that race, basically. And race based oversimplification of characteristics is of course a way of showing race-specific characteristics.
Tom's owner in Tom and Jerry is completely racist, you'd have to be an idiot not to see it.
The guy who's calling things racist that everyone else don't so much bat an eye at.It's racist by definition, and there are more black stereotypes, the "boy" and the "mammy" are just 2. I think there are 5 most common which have been a part of Hollywood since it's formation inc. boy and mammy.
That's what I thought, you use racism as holding any believe for differences between "races". With that definition you are completely right.
I think the people replying to you however use the other common definition that includes some sort of "inferiority" in the race they are racist against.
So probably just a misunderstanding of terms, and not a difference in opinion.
Originally posted by lord xyz
Well, first of all, races don't exist, and there is no biological evidence to determine a race...there's actually more genetic variation within whities than between whities and blacks. This is why we use "ethnicity" instead. I open with this because acknowledging different races as anything other than skin-deep is racist...Cultural stereotypes are culturist, I guess, but as I mentioned in earlier posts, if the only justification for the characteristics are the colour of the skin...that's racist.Racism is defined as the belief that all members of a race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, esp. to distinguish as inferior or superior to other races, but not exclusively. A stereotype is defined as: A widely held but fixed and oversimplified image or idea of a particular type of person or thing. So a racial stereotype is an oversimplifying image of a race or a person of a race, specific to that race, basically. And race based oversimplification of characteristics is of course a way of showing race-specific characteristics.
Tom's owner in Tom and Jerry is completely racist, you'd have to be an idiot not to see it.
It's racist by definition, and there are more black stereotypes, the "boy" and the "mammy" are just 2. I think there are 5 most common which have been a part of Hollywood since it's formation inc. boy and mammy.
I'm also aware that there's a difference between a stereotype with a foundation in reality and one born out of racial intolerance.
As the people in this thread have attested to, the "Mammy" isn't something that exists only in fiction.
Are you calling reality racist?
Originally posted by Omega VisionOf course not. The belief that these characteristics are race based is racist. In terms of television, these characteristics are of course only there due to the colour of the skin of the characters...racist. In terms of reality, if there is a general trend of certain characteristics due to the subculture of Americans with African ethnicity, and there's data to support that, then that isn't racist. But that's not what's being said.
I'm well aware of the major black stereotypes and their nuances.I'm also aware that there's a difference between a stereotype with a foundation in reality and one born out of racial intolerance.
As the people in this thread have attested to, the "Mammy" isn't something that exists only in fiction.
Are you calling reality racist?