Originally posted by the ninjak
After looking at those scans KM I'm still not sold.
Lulz those were a description on what the Great Beasts are not their power levels so not sure what you are not sold on.
So you still believe the comparison "Car > Charles" is accurate? Lovely
You seem to be impressed that GR briefly paused WWH, while the Great Beasts gave pause to the Choas King and his God Army. I wonder which is more impressive?
Originally posted by -K-M-
Lulz those were a description on what the Great Beasts are not their power levels so not sure what you are not sold on.So you still believe the comparison "Car > Charles" is accurate? Lovely
Your post was excellent by the way. Very grandiose and dramatic. But there is no reason to say that such a force is greater than the personification of Vengeance itself. It doesn't matter who is the vessel currently as the Ghost Rider, it sheds it. I could be wrong obviously but that's the way the force was explained by Reed at the time.
It's an odd fight. And thanks to your post I retract my previous view of Vengeance winning to an either way.
How do you judge primal forces of nature?
Originally posted by the ninjak
Your post was excellent by the way. Very grandiose and dramatic. But there is no reason to say that such a force is greater than the personification of Vengeance itself. It doesn't matter who is the vessel currently as the Ghost Rider, it sheds it. I could be wrong obviously but that's the way the force was explained by Reed at the time.It's an odd fight. And thanks to your post I retract my previous view of Vengeance winning to an either way.
How do you judge primal forces of nature?
It was excellent wasn't it? 🙂 In the grand scheme of things the Beasts are far more powerful then Ghost Rider. Just because he is said to be the personification of vengeance doesnt mean he is all power. The Spectre is the spirit of vengenace so do you think GR is on his level? I would hope not
In the end by using your comparison the personification of death would be more powerful then vengenance. Why? Well if your dead there is nothing to avenge or cause vengenance against. There is a reason Death is one of the most powerful abstracts. Dont use that comparison.
You don't! You go by feats, and Tanaraq clearly has one up on GR.
Originally posted by -K-M-
It was excellent wasn't it? 🙂 In the grand scheme of things the Beasts are far more powerful then Ghost Rider. Just because he is said to be the personification of vengeance doesnt mean he is all power. The Spectre is the spirit of vengenace so do you think GR is on his level? I would hope notIn the end by using your comparison the personification of death would be more powerful then vengenance. Why? Well if your dead there is nothing to avenge or cause vengenance against. There is a reason Death is one of the most powerful abstracts. So thus dont use that comparison.
You don't! You go by feats, and Tanaraq clearly has one up on GR.
Nah I see the Spectre just happening to be the personification of Revenge through the Voice as a different situation. Spectre is to me pretty much God's Wrath. He is vastly stronger than these two combined.
And with your other point, no. Death is a vastly more extravagant idea than Vengeance. Vengeance is a form of intent/an idea. Death is inevitable on a larger scale. Death in all respects should be much more powerful than Vengence. Your comparison is mute.
Your whole post tried to mix up philosophies and comparisons on a character I never brought up.
Originally posted by the ninjak
Nah I see the Spectre just happening to be the personification of Revenge through the Voice as a different situation. Spectre is to me pretty much God's Wrath. He is vastly stronger than these two combined.And with your other point, no. Death is a vastly more extravagant idea than Vengeance. One inevitable the other a form of intent/an idea. Death in all respects should be much more powerful than Vengence. Your comparison is mute.
Vengenance and wrath go hand and hand 😬 and as noted he IS the Spirit of Vengenance.
Two words: "Blackest Night". Which "emotion" was the most powerful? Your not grasping the mere fact if your dead there is nothing else you can do. As I said Death is one of the strongest abstracts, not vengenance. Not really much else to add as it's stated death is absolute.
Originally posted by -K-M-Life was 😛
Vengenance and wrath go hand and hand 😬 and as noted he IS the Spirit of Vengenance.Two words: "Blackest Night". Which "emotion" was the most powerful? Your not grasping the mere fact if your dead there is nothing else you can do. As I said Death is one of the strongest abstracts, not vengenance. Not really much else to add as it's stated death is absolute.
I dunno if it's really fair to use Spectre in Blackest Night as a measuring stick. He's always been limited in what he can do to what the will of God/Yahweh/The Source/etc. allows him to do and if his master doesn't want him to beat someone, they don't get beaten. I mean, he completely wrecked Darkseid and then his boss brought Darkseid back.
So while The Spectre on average is >>>> Ghost Rider, him doing poorly against Nekron (who was only a being claiming to be the force of death when Death herself flatly told Lex Luthor she had nothing to do with Blackest Night) isn't a fair evaluation how a being of Wrath or Vengeance would do against a being of Death.
Great Beasts are still greater than Spirits of Vengeance in Marvel though.
I'm enjoying this.
One is a murdered man as DC's avatar of Vengeance riding on the Voice which is practically God's Wrath.
And the other is a biker who is possessed by the personification of vengeance, A hell angel that is the negative version of justice.
DC's version is insanely stronger. The comparison is completely pointless. And has no reflection on the argument at hand.
The Great Beast isnt Death. Mistress Death is in the Marvel Universe.
I actually wasnt using Spectre as a measuring stick in Blackest Night 😬
The point was you can't just go by titles, as Spectre and GR share the same title but are NOT equal in power. Not hard to grasp really...or so I thought
However, we have seen in Marvel and DC that Death is more powerful then vengenance.
Originally posted by the ninjak
I'm enjoying this.
One is a murdered man as DC's avatar of Vengeance riding on the Voice which is practically God's Wrath.And the other is a biker who is possessed by the personification of vengeance, A hell angel that is the negative version of justice.
DC's version is insanely stronger. The comparison is completely pointless. And has no reflection on the argument at hand.
*facepalm* Wow...simply wow. Way to miss the point.
Originally posted by -K-M-
I actually wasnt using Spectre as a measuring stick in Blackest Night 😬The point was you can't just go by titles, as Spectre and GR share the same title but are NOT equal in power. Not hard to grasp really...or so I thought
I grasped, I was just clarifying that just because Spectre got jobbed to Nekron doesn't mean Death entities are inherently superior to Wrath entities.
Originally posted by Mr.Mxyzptlk
I grasped, I was just clarifying that just because Spectre got jobbed to Nekron doesn't mean Death entities are inherently superior to Wrath entities.
I wasn't even using that as proof, but in Marvel Death as noted is the strongest abstract in the universe. Not vengenance. So as I was saying his comparison doesnt work and not to use it.
I'm fine you are the one who brought up the Spectre.
And the comparison between Death and Vengence.
And the comparison between the DC and Marvel versions of Vengeance.
I'm just talkin to you.
*facepalm* right back
Originally posted by -K-M-
I wasn't even using that as proof, but in Marvel Death as noted is the strongest abstract in the universe. Not vengenance. So as I was saying his comparison doesnt work and not to use it.
Anyways as I told KM after his well written original response. Comparing these forces is not really solid.
Originally posted by Mindset
When have we seen an unleashed GR?
Actually during the arc that the wwhulk tie in was during. He was unleashed prior to that in order to Hunt Lucifer since they had become to powerful for Blaze to handle while in control and in wwhulk he only wasn't because Blaze forced him out because he wanted to fight Hulk but GR didn't want to because it wasn't the mission.
Originally posted by the ninjak
I'm fine you are the one who brought up the Spectre.
And the comparison between Death and Vengence.
And the comparison between the DC and Marvel versions of Vengeance.
I'm just talkin to you.
*facepalm* right backI didn't, you did lol.
Anyways as I told KM after his well written original response. Comparing these forces is not really solid.
I did, but your clearly not getting the example.
*shakes head* Good lord that's the point.
Originally posted by Mr.Mxyzptlk
I have to side with Ninjak on this one K-M. You were the one who brought up the Spectre and began comparing Death entities to Vengeance entities and comparing beings supposed ranks and titles instead of just flat out showing that Great Beasts > Marvel Spirits of Vegeance through feats.
I was comparing Spectre with GR as they both have matching titles but drastically different powers so using titles alone to indicate who wins is faulty...which as he earlier he said Vegenance > Great Beasts merely based on titles. You cant do that as I said and you have to go by feats which the Beasts have. Did you read the entire debate?