The main villain being vaguely mentioned at some point in the story isn't enough. This is the MAIN villain, they have to have some character development and presence beyond simply knowing that she exists for any measurable amount of success. Their development of Ultimicia is not enough, which is why she's widely recognized as one of the weaker villains in the series.
She does have character development and presence in the story. Everything Edea does is in fact Ultimecia. Corrupting Seifer? Her. That speech she gives is her. When she kills the president of Galbadia thats her too. When she butt****s Squall, also her.
I'm sorry but the characters themselves were written as if by 13 year olds for 13 year olds. Squall goes from being a whiny **** to a slightly less whiny ****. That's not meaningful character progression. Squall has all the depth of a leaky bathtub. We're given no real reason to root for him. We're expected to because he's the main character in the game for some reason, not because he's a good character.
Just to nitpick, but the characters are supposed to be initially immature. Its part of the themes and overarcing plot.
Gotta disagree with BF, at least on the Squall issue. I can accept that Ultimecia was badly handled (heck, i'd even agree), but Squall did, imo, have character progression, it just wasn't as spelled out as it could have been. Maybe that's the problem, in that interpretation plays a big part in it.To some people he's going to seem like he didn't grow much, while to others (like me) there are definite signs of growth. I guess it just depends on your POV, because if anything I don't believe the game was cery definitive in that sense.
For me, Squall started off as someone who didn't really like being around other people, and had severe problems in speaking and showing his emotions. By the end of the game he'd gone out of his way for Rinoa (twice), and had taken a leadership role and eventually flourished in it, even though he hadn't wanted it in the first place. He doesn't start off as an interesting character, but I honetly believe he becomes one over the course of the game.
Screw Zell though. **** that guy.
This. 👆
(also how ironic is it that the guy named Spoony is the one defending FFX and VIII? Lol)
Originally posted by §P0oONY
I wasn't attacking him and I'm not getting over-sensitive.The guy made no points to back up his case. Unless you include "We are given no reason to root for him"... which is simply not true. We are given plenty. We hear his insercurities in thought, we learn of his troubled upbrining and we see him finally open up to his new found friends.
Please take off your moderating hat for once Ush and stop making this out to be anything more than a discussion about FFVIII. Backfire is a big boy... he can tell me off himself if he feels I'm being unfair to him.
Calling someone a dick is attacking them, there's no two ways about it. If you can't argue with someone's points without resorting to that...then don't bother trying.
Squall's insecurities are essentially "...*sigh*...". Since basically all he does in the game is go "..." and "...whatever." Yep, that's some compelling characterization there. I've played VIII several times as well, and each time through has made me want to slap the collective cast over the had and tell them to stop whining and grow up even more.
Where's the backing to your claims that Squall went through great character development, the plot was good, and Ultimecia was a good villain? You've done nothing to back up what you've said.
Originally posted by Peach
Calling someone a dick is attacking them, there's no two ways about it. If you can't argue with someone's points without resorting to that...then don't bother trying.Squall's insecurities are essentially "...*sigh*...". Since basically all he does in the game is go "..." and "...whatever." Yep, that's some compelling characterization there. I've played VIII several times as well, and each time through has made me want to slap the collective cast over the had and tell them to stop whining and grow up even more.
Where's the backing to your claims that Squall went through great character development, the plot was good, and Ultimecia was a good villain? You've done nothing to back up what you've said.
Erm... I have backed my claims that Squall went through character development. I have mentioned the fact that he starts off as insecure and introverted and then opens up. That is character development. And I personally believe it was done well. (See Pr's post - which says it better than I can.)
I also agreed with BF that Ultimicia was a weak villian.
Originally posted by Nephthys
YouTube video
Originally posted by §P0oONY
I do not wish to continue this petty "Stop being mean to BF" shit... All I said was something like "Stop being a dick"... stop over reacting.Erm... I have backed my claims that Squall went through character development. I have mentioned the fact that he starts off as insecure and introverted and then opens up. That [b]is
character development. And I personally believe it was done well. (See Pr's post - which says it better than I can.)I also agreed with BF that Ultimicia was a weak villian. [/B]
Well, unfortunately for you, you don't decide when something gets dropped. That's rather my job, and I have every right to tell you to knock something off in my forum. If I say I don't want it to continue, then you drop it. Not the other way around.
And no you haven't. Where's the examples? "He started out insecure and opens up" is simply your opinion itself, but you haven't actually shown any examples to support this opinion. You can't...back up an opinion by restating your opinion. It doesn't work that way.
She does have character development and presence in the story. Everything Edea does is in fact Ultimecia. Corrupting Seifer? Her. That speech she gives is her. When she kills the president of Galbadia thats her too. When she butt****s Squall, also her.
Yeah, which we find out at the end of the game. There's no evidence of this before like...halfway through disc 4. That's not a constant presence, that's going "oh crap we've gotta shoehorn her in somehow, MAKE HER RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERYTHING EVER."
Really... what's the point? I'm over having arguements on message boards.
This game has been well recieved by critics and fans alike. You guys are in the minority here I'm afraid.
Oh, and BF and I were simply having a discussion. Then you and Ush; desperate to do something in an ever dwindling forum, butted in with your moderator hats on and soured the whole thing. Congrats for alienating yet another member.
Originally posted by Peach
Yeah, which we find out at the end of the game. There's no evidence of this before like...halfway through disc 4. That's not a constant presence, that's going "oh crap we've gotta shoehorn her in somehow, MAKE HER RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERYTHING EVER."
Not at all. Shes always the villian throughout. All that changes is her name. And its not at the end of the game. As soon as you defeat 'Edea' she tells you she was possessed by Ultimecia. Thats at the end of disk 2.
Originally posted by §P0oONY
Really... what's the point? I'm over having arguements on message boards.This game has been well recieved by critics and fans alike. You guys are in the minority here I'm afraid.
Oh, and BF and I were simply having a discussion. Then you and Ush; desperate to do something in an ever dwindling forum, butted in with your moderator hats on and soured the whole thing. Congrats for alienating yet another member.
If you're "over having arguements on message boards", then why do you start them?
The game is flawed to all hell and most reviews point this out. It got good reviews because all of the main FF games do, but as far as the FF series go, it's one of the lesser-liked ones (a full five FFs were rated higher). More recent reviews are certainly less kind (this for example); gaming has grown up and matured since it came out and what held up in 1999 isn't necessarily going to pass today. We're really not in the minority, because most people who've played the game recognize that it's heavily flawed, even if they did like it (you can like something while pointing out that it's objectively not that good, after all - try it some day. It's not hard). I mean, I actually personally liked FFVIII. But that doesn't make it perfect or free from criticism.
Discuss all you want, but if you pull out the namecalling, then expect to be told to knock it off. Only people that'll get alienated by that are those who know they did something wrong but don't want to face any consequences. Now, drop it, or leave.
That's an official warning for your attitude there, spooony. Carry on like that and it will be a ban.
You were definitely over-sensitive and resorting to insults like that again when someone disagrees strongly is something I will warn and ban for. I don;t want you to discuss that warning any further- just accept it.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
That's an official warning for your attitude there, spooony. Carry on like that and it will be a ban.You were definitely over-sensitive and resorting to insults like that again when someone disagrees strongly is something I will warn and ban for. I don;t want you to discuss that warning any further- just accept it.
effectively disillusioned
Hello!
FFVIII's story did seem a little slapped-together to me, but by that time I was so caught up in the intricacies of Magic Junctioning that I was hypnotized sufficiently so that it just barely registered on my usually-sharp radar "Huh? What? You crazy teens are going into space? Sure thing...zzz...99 Ultima spells to Health stat..." 😖leep: