Originally posted by Esau Cairn😆
X-Men 1st Class.At the beginning of the movie when Sebastian kills Eric's mother.
Eric shows his anguish & rage by killing the 2 soldiers but does NO HARM to Sebastian at all.He then spends the rest of the movie & his adulthood hunting him down.
The Phantom Menace with Kenobi killing Maul the way he did was PIS at its finest.
I watching Dirty Harry a while back and the part where they say they can't convict Scorpio keeps nagging at me badly. I mean, yes, he enters his place without a warrant (he doesn't search it though) and there's the 'torturing' aspect but its earlier on in the film that keeps bugging me.
When Scorpio is beating Harry up in the park and threatening to kill the girl and him, Harry's partner is listening to all this on the concealed mike. Even though Scorpio is wearing a mask, Harry marks him with a knife wound and that surely would have been enough to get him for attempted murder of a police officer. Even more so if blood matching was available at that time since Callahan would have his blood on the knife.
Just keeps bugging me with that scene, with all the bother about the lack of a search warrant.
Originally posted by Lord Shadow Z
I see your point but again, in the warehouse he had the CAR-15 (thank you wikipedia) with the grenade launcher, the desert eagle and the shotgun. He got the drop mainly because of the water taking out the stealth but thats not PIS, thats a precendent that was set in the first movie, water disrupts the stealth mode. The Predator wasn't standing still for Harrigan either, Harrigan used the meat to slow him down until he could get the shotgun into play and by that time the Pred had no weapon to even get to him from that position.He also takes out the Pred in the ship because he's basically fighting an one-armed opponent and you easily imagine that he could almost treat that like a knife fight, and being in the 'warzone' as Harrigan calls his precinct you'd think he'd be able to fight those odds.
But the Dutch example is not so believable as a direct confrontation that looks like they are having an almost human fight, how hard would have been for the Pred to slip the wrist blades into his body when it managed that so easily against an armed opponent like Dillon? Or presumably Billy too?(we never get to see that but its's inferred that the Pred took him out man to alien so to speak)
Yes, he got the drop, but what happens to be exact? The predator is fully aware of it's incapability to cloak (it finds out when it fights the hunt team) yet it tries to activate it, yet is caught by surprise? And then what happens next Carrigan fires up a single burst and manages to take out the Shoulder Cannon, something not a entire horde of armed gangmembers or soldiers could do, that is also plot induced device. The Predator still had his Wristblades which he also magically forgot, he also had his staff which he also forgot. he also had his net which he also forget etc.
Originally posted by Utrigita
Yes, he got the drop, but what happens to be exact? The predator is fully aware of it's incapability to cloak (it finds out when it fights the hunt team) yet it tries to activate it, yet is caught by surprise? And then what happens next Carrigan fires up a single burst and manages to take out the Shoulder Cannon, something not a entire horde of armed gangmembers or soldiers could do, that is also plot induced device. The Predator still had his Wristblades which he also magically forgot, he also had his staff which he also forgot. he also had his net which he also forget etc.
The Predator trying to cloak when it's aware of the fact it may not work could very well be an instinctive reaction, a lot like when we hurt ourselves doing someting yet feel compelled to do it again, an unconcious reaction if you will. The taking out of the shoulder cannon - while I'm sure he fires two bursts to break it - is extremely fortunate and I'll give you that as PIS.
Of your other points once the Predator lost it's cloak and cannon it was in a very vulnerable position and not best disposed to run out and get nailed by Harrigan's assault rifle/grenade launcher - for all it knew Harrigan had another grenade. Once it saw an opening it took it and brought Harrigan to the ground with some kind of projectile. Kees showing up in the nick of time is part of the plot and after that the battle is fairly even. You say the Pred has these weapons and could have used them, he did use them and Harrigan negated them all fairly reasonably in my opinon.
1. The projectile he fires: Harrigan takes it in the vest, now, okay, the projectile should be able to pierce 'earth metal' but it's unclear what that wrist projectile was. Could go either way because even if it was the 'spear tip' thing it has only been shown punching through a man's head.
2. The disk: Pred uses it on Kees and loses it, giving Harrigan the opportunity to take it for himself. Plausible.
3. The spear: Pred throws it at Harrigan, he ducks and it misses, Pred loses another weapon. Plausible and had it been used earlier it would have been easy to duck then.
4. The bomb: Harrigan cuts it off at the arm with retrieved disk. Plausible because there isn't anything to say that wouldn't stop the bomb so that generally becomes canon.
5. The net: ripped apart with the captured disk. Plausible.
6. The wrist blades: fended off with the captured disk. Plausible because like I said before it's more or less like a knife fight at that point.
Just because the Pred didn't use a particular weapon at a particular time doesn't make it PIS, it's just that the Pred had a lot of options, a split second to decide what to use, two of his most used abilities unavailable and Harrigan breathing down his neck with an assault rifle (with grenades), shotgun and desert eagle. The fact that it may have not made the right choice at the right time is purely a hindsight issue.
Originally posted by Darth Martin
😆The Phantom Menace with Kenobi killing Maul the way he did was PIS at its finest.
Do you think it's PIS because Darth Maul could survive being cut in half with a lightsaber?
Or do you think it's CIS because he didn't react as quickly as he should have when Obi-Wan made his surprise move out of the shaft? Personally, I thought Maul was just overconfident at that moment, the way the duel had gone.
Originally posted by Lord Shadow Z
The Predator trying to cloak when it's aware of the fact it may not work could very well be an instinctive reaction, a lot like when we hurt ourselves doing someting yet feel compelled to do it again, an unconcious reaction if you will. The taking out of the shoulder cannon - while I'm sure he fires two bursts to break it - is extremely fortunate and I'll give you that as PIS.Of your other points once the Predator lost it's cloak and cannon it was in a very vulnerable position and not best disposed to run out and get nailed by Harrigan's assault rifle/grenade launcher - for all it knew Harrigan had another grenade. Once it saw an opening it took it and brought Harrigan to the ground with some kind of projectile. Kees showing up in the nick of time is part of the plot and after that the battle is fairly even. You say the Pred has these weapons and could have used them, he did use them and Harrigan negated them all fairly reasonably in my opinon.
1. The projectile he fires: Harrigan takes it in the vest, now, okay, the projectile should be able to pierce 'earth metal' but it's unclear what that wrist projectile was. Could go either way because even if it was the 'spear tip' thing it has only been shown punching through a man's head.
2. The disk: Pred uses it on Kees and loses it, giving Harrigan the opportunity to take it for himself. Plausible.
3. The spear: Pred throws it at Harrigan, he ducks and it misses, Pred loses another weapon. Plausible and had it been used earlier it would have been easy to duck then.
4. The bomb: Harrigan cuts it off at the arm with retrieved disk. Plausible because there isn't anything to say that wouldn't stop the bomb so that generally becomes canon.
5. The net: ripped apart with the captured disk. Plausible.
6. The wrist blades: fended off with the captured disk. Plausible because like I said before it's more or less like a knife fight at that point.
Just because the Pred didn't use a particular weapon at a particular time doesn't make it PIS, it's just that the Pred had a lot of options, a split second to decide what to use, two of his most used abilities unavailable and Harrigan breathing down his neck with an assault rifle (with grenades), shotgun and desert eagle. The fact that it may have not made the right choice at the right time is purely a hindsight issue.
If this had been a ordinary bully, I would agree, however it isn't. We are talking about a advanced highly trained alien race, which focus on hunting live species. The fact alone that the Predator was entirely relaxed about losing his cloak capabilities before engaging Harrigan and then becoming perplexed by it doesn't add up.
With a entire arsenal of weapons, multiple levels of vision, a superior endurance and stamina, what exactly makes you think that the predator was in a vulnarable situation. It tanked shotguns round to the chest without any problems what so ever, besides losing consciousness for a short amount of time.
You are incorrect none of those weapons was used against Harrigan. The projectile fired against Harrigan, was obviously not the same as used in the apartment (that one didn't work like a small missile), so that is one weapon the predator magically forgets it has.
Point is that none of the weapons the predator had at it's disposal was used against Harrigan, when a Character (like the Predator) doesn't use weapons against a opponent of a certain character (like Harrigan for instance) which it have used against other opponents, to show the Predators skills then it's PIS when the character (predator) suddenly decides not to use them and forgets about them. Recall that it's only on the Roof that Harrigan gets the disc, there was alot of possibilities to disable Harrigan down in the freezer, yet the Predator used none of those. It could have grapped it's Waistblade and sliced him up, it could have thrown it's spear (which Harrigan based on the speed the Predator threw it with the first time would have no chance at avoiding.) but what Harrigan could or couldn't have survived isn't the primary focus point. The primary focus is that the predator because of the plot is required to forget certain abilities at it's disposal and it does. And what Harrigan is breathing down his neck with isn't really that great of a factor. The Predator prior to the engagement with Harrigan killed a entire squad that was equiped and trained to defeat the Predator. It was cold and calculated in that engagement, but not in the following, and that is only because Harrigan had to win that fight.
Originally posted by Utrigita
You are incorrect none of those weapons was used against Harrigan. The projectile fired against Harrigan, was obviously not the same as used in the apartment (that one didn't work like a small missile), so that is one weapon the predator magically forgets it has.Point is that none of the weapons the predator had at it's disposal was used against Harrigan, when a Character (like the Predator) doesn't use weapons against a opponent of a certain character (like Harrigan for instance) which it have used against other opponents, to show the Predators skills then it's PIS when the character (predator) suddenly decides not to use them and forgets about them. Recall that it's only on the Roof that Harrigan gets the disc, there was alot of possibilities to disable Harrigan down in the freezer, yet the Predator used none of those. It could have grapped it's Waistblade and sliced him up, it could have thrown it's spear (which Harrigan based on the speed the Predator threw it with the first time would have no chance at avoiding.) but what Harrigan could or couldn't have survived isn't the primary focus point. The primary focus is that the predator because of the plot is required to forget certain abilities at it's disposal and it does. And what Harrigan is breathing down his neck with isn't really that great of a factor. The Predator prior to the engagement with Harrigan killed a entire squad that was equiped and trained to defeat the Predator. It was cold and calculated in that engagement, but not in the following, and that is only because Harrigan had to win that fight.
Ermm.. yes I believe the Predator did use the majority of his weapons against Harrigan and all used against him were negated. The only weapon he didn't use against him was the laser cannon, which Harrigan negated immediately.
I'll refresh your memory if you are not sure:
Wrist projectile - fired at Harrigan shortly after losing it's laser cannon, stopped by Harrigan's vest.
The disk: not thrown at Harrigan but still sloppy by the Predator and it's own fault really for losing it.
The spear: thrown at Harrigan on the roof of the warehouse, Harrigan ducks and avoids it, that seems to be threat negated to me. Couldn't have been thrown in the warehouse because it would have been too crowded with the meat and other obstacles and he never got close enough to use it.
The wrist bomb: used against Harrigan while hanging off the building, Harrigan precedes to cut the Pred's wrist off with the disk, negating the bomb. Too early too use anytime before or after and defies the point of being a trophy collector/hunter.
The net: used against Harrigan in the ship, negated with the disk. Again, the previous time it was used it was in an open apartment with hardly any obstacles and the advantage of his stealth to get a good shot. Also when it was used in the ship it was an open environment, like the apartment, how about that?
The wristblades: used against Harrigan in the ship, negated with the disk. He did get close to use them but it was probably dazed/pissed of by getting shotgunned (it smashes his gun and screams, possible indicator of anger) after that he never got close enough until the ship.
You seem so sure that the Predator had more of a chance to defeat Harrigan than the other way round. Harrigan had the Pred out for the count and could have blasted his head off, thats a better example of PIS!. The Pred only had the advantage against Kee's team because they couldn't see/mark his position, the Predator however could see/mark them, so the team didn't see him until he was chopping them down. Hardly a fair situation and example of the Pred's abilities, taking down blind enemies.
Here's a PIS element you see in a few films; the big epic ones in particular:
The great battle has been fought, and the forces of good have triumphed, everything has been settled for the future course of events...
How about the two leading nemesis in the conflict get together and have a duel to the death, when all's said & done?
We seen it most recently in Avatar (Jake Sully vs. Quadritch)
Other past examples are Frank Herbert's Dune (Paul vs. Feyd) and Lethal Weapon 1 (Riggs vs. Mr. Joshua.) When you think about, it doesn't make sense for this to happen after the conflict is over, does it?
It should be happening when the outcome is still in doubt, or in the center of the large conflict going on. That's what is happening with the lightsabers duels in the Star Wars films (even in Revenge Of The Sith, where there is still an opportunity for Yoda & Obi Wan to stop the Sith takeover before it takes hold.)
Originally posted by roughriderWe seen it most recently in Avatar (Jake Sully vs. Quadritch)
Other past examples are Frank Herbert's Dune (Paul vs. Feyd) and Lethal Weapon 1 (Riggs vs. Mr. Joshua.) When you think about, it doesn't make sense for this to happen after the conflict is over, does it?
But in the two examples you've listed, the issues became personal & not about the mission or Mr. Joshua still being hired as a henchman.
In Avatar, Sully felt outrage for the senseless killing & Quadritch felt betrayed by Sully going "native".
In Lethal Weapon, Mr. Joshua made it personal by taking the fight to Murtagh's home.
Compare it to Star Wars, the battles are about sides & not as personal.
I mean all Versus Threads can be labelled P.I.S but geeks, I mean people still like to take sides & have opinions on them.
Well, in ROTJ, it didn't really make military sense for Luke to leave the rebels and go confront Darth Vader and the Emperor, but he was following the will of the force. And it turned out to be the right thing to do, as it ensured the deaths of both Vader and the Emperor - thereby cutting off the head of the Empire - when otherwise they might have escaped the Death Star. And the conflict was very personal.
With the other examples, I'm just saying it's more movie world logic than real world logic, that those fights would take place then. Just giving something to the audience, like a staged hockey fight.
Originally posted by roughrider
Here's a PIS element you see in a few films; the big epic ones in particular:The great battle has been fought, and the forces of good have triumphed, everything has been settled for the future course of events...
How about the two leading nemesis in the conflict get together and have a duel to the death, when all's said & done?
We seen it most recently in Avatar (Jake Sully vs. Quadritch)
Other past examples are Frank Herbert's Dune (Paul vs. Feyd) and Lethal Weapon 1 (Riggs vs. Mr. Joshua.) When you think about, it doesn't make sense for this to happen after the conflict is over, does it?
It should be happening when the outcome is still in doubt, or in the center of the large conflict going on. That's what is happening with the lightsabers duels in the Star Wars films (even in Revenge Of The Sith, where there is still an opportunity for Yoda & Obi Wan to stop the Sith takeover before it takes hold.)
I can see where you're going with this, especially the Mr Joshua fight.
He really had no reason to go after Riggs or Murtaugh because in a general sense he's a mercenary and could clearly have found someone else to work for. His army loyalty for his boss (a boss who wasn't concerned about Joshua while escaping himself) might come into it but even that doesn't excuse going armed to a cop's house intent on revenge. Even the fact that Murtaugh's first and only assumption that he even went to the house would be enough to help him disappear.
What bugged me about that scene is when Joshua finds the note already in the house waiting for him. If the note is already in the house and presumably the house is covered, why did they let Joshua blow away the two cops guarding the house?
'Yeah, we'll watch the house and put a note in it to get a rise out of Joshua but those two cops watching the house are on their own'
😆
Most disliked plot holes in movies you like?
Well I watched the Truman show from the start for the first time in years and since Im a little older I get more of the concepts and i love it but a few things annoy me about it
1.Would the creators not have been better off not mentioning the world outside seahaven?
2.That guy lives the most boring life possible, it makes other reality tv shows interesting in comparison, who would wanna watch it?
3.All the people cheering on Truman in the end, would they not have been like this is a joke you have a guy in a 'prison' against his will down through his 30 years?
4.Where the hell was the cops for the creator when he went about basically killing truman at the end 'they watched him being born'
I'm sure theres more that I can't think of
Re: Most disliked plot holes in movies you like?
Originally posted by Dav86
Well I watched the Truman show from the start for the first time in years and since Im a little older I get more of the concepts and i love it but a few things annoy me about it1.Would the creators not have been better off not mentioning the world outside seahaven?
2.That guy lives the most boring life possible, it makes other reality tv shows interesting in comparison, who would wanna watch it?
3.All the people cheering on Truman in the end, would they not have been like this is a joke you have a guy in a 'prison' against his will down through his 30 years?
4.Where the hell was the cops for the creator when he went about basically killing truman at the end 'they watched him being born'I'm sure theres more that I can't think of
There is a thread already for PIS in films here. But I'll answer for you.
1. They do mention the world outside Seahaven. But it's always in a foreboding way, part of the decades-long conditioning to keep Truman on the island.
2. Who can say what people will watch? I look at one reality show after another and can't for the life of me figure out why someone watches it! One difference here is, Truman has been watched since birth, and it's become a generational thing like those fans who stay with soap operas for decades, like Coronation Street.
3. Define 'prison.' There have been movements and attempts to get Truman out of Seahaven, but he was legally adopted by a corporation as a baby and they are still his legal guardian. Christof brushes off the the prisoner accusations by reminding people it's a prison without bars, that Truman could leave if he absolutely wanted to, but deep down prefers the comfortable 'cell' they made for him.
(It is murky territory about the psychological barriers they keep throwing at him against leaving, though.)
The film poses a lot of questions about morality, what people are willing to do or go along with. People are still willing to eat cows and chicken no matter how inhumane they made be treated in a slaughterhouse; they just want to have their hearty meal, and only the fringe groups protest about it. Just as in here, people are willing to watch a man with an idealized life, sitting in a perfect prison without bars, and few think about the morality of it.
4. This is ultimately a science fiction premise, so I'm not concerned about every detail they don't elaborate on. A gigantic sound stage that covers many square miles, climate controlled with an artificial sun that looks real from a distance - compared to that, how many levels of government & law enforcement are complicit or bought off by the corporation are small questions. We don't even know how far in the future this is taking place; all the angles of people in their homes are really from the point of view of the TV screen looking back. Nothing outside is seen.
The bit where Palpatine clearly orders the death of all the Gungans in TPM, yet then droids are seen sparing JarJar and taking him alive as a prisoner on the battlefield, when he was totally at their mercy..
What part of "Wipe them out...all of them...!" was unclear or optional to them....?!!?
The trade federation had an opportunity to go out as heroes to the galaxy....but nooo....
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
The bit where Palpatine clearly orders the death of all the Gungans in TPM, yet then droids are seen sparing JarJar and taking him alive as a prisoner on the battlefield, when he was totally at their mercy..What part of "Wipe them out...all of them...!" was unclear or optional to them....?!!?
The trade federation had an opportunity to go out as heroes to the galaxy....but nooo....
Perhaps once they rounded up all the prisoners in a line, they would have shot them all then. It would have saved money in not having more droids destroyed in a continuing battle.
Maybe....but they were seen killing lots of other gungans with no regard for such formality....yet when it comes to two more gungans, they suddenly get procedural?
Also you have to sacrifice fighting numbers to set prisoners aside and guard them too. Also TF droids cause of their essentially being crap, rely on great numbers getting the job done..so is it not more logical to waste the "prisoners" there and move on?
How in the latest Twilight.
Edward has sex with Bella and creates a super powerful baby that will kill her. Suddenly the parents have a word for the creature and Edward even searches Google and finds lots of hits and images. lol. You would think he would stumbled upon this information earlier in his few hundred years of researching his kind.
You would think that they would've been old enough to warn the kid.
Wear a rubber or pull out Edward, lest a demon baby eats thou wifes stomach.