Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Thor also has the means to dispel Loki's illusions and counter his sorcery through Mjolnir, though.
Yeah it's been pretty well established that it's less of Thor's power (not so say he's not powerful) and more of Thor being a counter to Loki. They are pretty comparative really
Originally posted by quanchi112
Loki's illusions won't bother the Hulk much. It's just a matter of time here. Loki can't put him down whereas the Hulk does as soon as he gets ahold of him.
They have before in the past, though. Granted, that was classic Hulk, but Loki hardly exerted himself in doing so and while Hulk has come a long way since then, so too has Loki.
I just think Loki's power set and cunning is a uphill battle to overcome for a one dimensional brick, albeit a very powerful one such as Hulk.
Originally posted by JakeTheBankHulk's gotten so out of control powerful lately I honestly don't even think Loki would even want a piece of him.
They have before in the past, though. Granted, that was classic Hulk, but Loki hardly exerted himself in doing so and while Hulk has come a long way since then, so too has Loki.I just think Loki's power set and cunning is a uphill battle to overcome for a one dimensional brick, albeit a very powerful one such as Hulk.
Hulk's proven time and time again how formidable he is. I just don't see Loki as being powerful enough to even really slow him down.
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
What do you mean bridging that gap?You mean The Hulk is going to fly and see through all of Loki's illusions?
Yes the Hulk would see through the illusion, he has done so in the past, and has feats to prove it.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
They have before in the past, though. Granted, that was classic Hulk, but Loki hardly exerted himself in doing so and while Hulk has come a long way since then, so too has Loki.I just think Loki's power set and cunning is a uphill battle to overcome for a one dimensional brick, albeit a very powerful one such as Hulk.
The Hulk vaped Fin Fang Foom with the sweat that was coming off of him. Loki would be dead in seconds.
Originally posted by Stoic
Yes the Hulk would see through the illusion, he has done so in the past, and has feats to prove it.The Hulk vaped Fin Fang Foom with the sweat that was coming off of him. Loki would be dead in seconds.
Which illusions has Hulk seen through? And Loki's illusions specifically have been shown to effect Hulk in the past.
Prove it would kill Loki in seconds when Loki can just go intangible/teleport/make himself radioactive/etc.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Which illusions has Hulk seen through? And Loki's illusions specifically have been shown to effect Hulk in the past.Prove it would kill Loki in seconds when Loki can just go intangible/teleport/make himself radioactive/etc.
Do you recall what happened in WW Hulk with Dr. Stranges astral self? The Hulk has always had the ability to detect BS.
Do you recall how resistant he is to things like magic, and psychic assaults when he's pissed off enough? You see these things can be called PIS if they happen only once, but if they continue happening, there comes a time that you have to say that it's one of his capabilities.
In the Dark Dimension I forget what those Juggernauts were named (The Forgotten Ones?) Those guys are pure magic, and the Hulk dealt with multitudes of them like they were feather weights. Nova Prime who in my opinion is a beast, had troubles with one or two.
The Hulk was literally unfazed by hit to the head by Bi-Beast, and the original baddass Wendigo, and the leader of the Troyjans hitting him at once.
Loki would die.
Originally posted by Stoic
Do you recall what happened in WW Hulk with Dr. Stranges astral self? The Hulk has always had the ability to detect BS.Do you recall how resistant he is to things like magic, and psychic assaults when he's pissed off enough? You see these things can be called PIS if they happen only once, but if they continue happening, there comes a time that you have to say that it's one of his capabilities.
In the Dark Dimension I forget what those Juggernauts were named (The Forgotten Ones?) Those guys are pure magic, and the Hulk dealt with multitudes of them like they were feather weights. Nova Prime who in my opinion is a beast, had troubles with one or two.
The Hulk was literally unfazed by hit to the head by Bi-Beast, and the original baddass Wendigo, and the leader of the Troyjans hitting him at once.
Loki would die.
Yes, I recall that moment. Doesn't invalidate all past history and neither does it somehow lessen Loki's trickery which have fooled Odin before. And I'm going out on here on a limb and say Odin's ability to detect "BS" is greater than that of Hulk's.
Ok, cool. Still doesn't invalidate or lessen Loki's ability.
Same as above.
Same as above.
I'm not disputing Hulk's badassery or his raw power, but against Loki, who's specifically fighting to the best of his ability and not simply brawling with Hulk, it's a tough fight for Hulk to win. I don't see whats so difficult about realizing that Hulk, a straight forward brick with top tier strength/durability/etc, would have issues with a guy who quite literally does not have to physically engage him in battle.
And using Thor as a reasoning for why Hulk would do as good or better is faulty as Thor specifically has the means to combat Loki's sorcery and illusions (ie. Mjolnir).
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Yes, I recall that moment. Doesn't invalidate all past history and neither does it somehow lessen Loki's trickery which have fooled Odin before. And I'm going out on here on a limb and say Odin's ability to detect "BS" is greater than that of Hulk's.Ok, cool. Still doesn't invalidate or lessen Loki's ability.
Same as above.
Same as above.
I'm not disputing Hulk's badassery or his raw power, but against Loki, who's specifically fighting to the best of his ability and not simply brawling with Hulk, it's a tough fight for Hulk to win. I don't see whats so difficult about realizing that Hulk, a straight forward brick with top tier strength/durability/etc, would have issues with a guy who quite literally does not have to physically engage him in battle.
And using Thor as a reasoning for why Hulk would do as good or better is faulty as Thor specifically has the means to combat Loki's sorcery and illusions (ie. Mjolnir).
Well said!
👆
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Yes, I recall that moment. Doesn't invalidate all past history and neither does it somehow lessen Loki's trickery which have fooled Odin before. And I'm going out on here on a limb and say Odin's ability to detect "BS" is greater than that of Hulk's.Ok, cool. Still doesn't invalidate or lessen Loki's ability.
Same as above.
Same as above.
I'm not disputing Hulk's badassery or his raw power, but against Loki, who's specifically fighting to the best of his ability and not simply brawling with Hulk, it's a tough fight for Hulk to win. I don't see whats so difficult about realizing that Hulk, a straight forward brick with top tier strength/durability/etc, would have issues with a guy who quite literally does not have to physically engage him in battle.
And using Thor as a reasoning for why Hulk would do as good or better is faulty as Thor specifically has the means to combat Loki's sorcery and illusions (ie. Mjolnir).
The thing is that throughout the hulks history, he has had the ability to detect astral beings, this may not be one of Odins powersets, so while Odin may be more powerful than the Hulk, an ability is an ability. Grabbing Strange sort of diffuses Loki's ability to slip out the back door by becoming intangible correct?
Many people may remember what happened to the Visions attempts to harm the Hulk in his intangible form. It was turned back on him, and instead of Hurting the Hulk, he was instead hurt.
I didn't use Thor as a means to determine how well the Hulk would do against Loki, that may have been Quanchi.
My thing is that Loki fighting to the best vs the Hulk of 634 may not be enough. This is the reason that I vrought up the Forgotten Ones, they are pure magic, and the Hulk in the past was completely over run by them, this time was far different.
I just can't see Loki doing well at all, even with his magics against the Hulk when he simply will not hold anything back. This simply means that the Hulk would continue to grow in power with no end in sight. Marvel wrote the Beyonder saying that the Hulk was an infinite power, and from what I know, this statement has not been retconned. The Hulk isn't just a one trick pony, we all saw that he has long distance attacks.
A few things :
a) Hulk CAN see astral forms, it's an ability of his (mentioned on panel and in his handbook entry) so Loki in astral form will be spotted
b) The Hulk incident when he grabbed Dr. Strange's astral body was in a dimension in which things were more dense than things on Earth, that's how Hulk was able to touch Strange
c) The Mindless Ones of the Dark Dimension gave Dormammu fits and he's stated to be about Odin level in power (for sure he's more powerful than Classic Loki). If Hulk really was mowing through them left and right, that's a damn impressive feat
Originally posted by zopzop
A few things :a) Hulk CAN see astral forms, it's an ability of his (mentioned on panel and in his handbook entry) so Loki in astral form will be spotted
b) The Hulk incident when he grabbed Dr. Strange's astral body was in a dimension in which things were more dense than things on Earth, that's how Hulk was able to touch Strange
c) The Mindless Ones of the Dark Dimension gave Dormammu fits and he's stated to be about Odin level in power (for sure he's more powerful than Classic Loki). If Hulk really was mowing through them left and right, that's a damn impressive feat
Well said and all true.
Originally posted by StoicIn the Dark Dimension I forget what those Juggernauts were named (The Forgotten Ones?) Those guys are pure magic, and the Hulk dealt with multitudes of them like they were feather weights. Nova Prime who in my opinion is a beast, had troubles with one or two.
They vary I have seen the Nova example I have also seen them be cut in half by blade using and adamantium sword simply restore themselves.But have also seen them get be destroyed by The Thing and Thor and taken down by a shotgun.
Originally posted by zopzop
A few things :a) Hulk CAN see astral forms, it's an ability of his (mentioned on panel and in his handbook entry) so Loki in astral form will be spotted
b) The Hulk incident when he grabbed Dr. Strange's astral body was in a dimension in which things were more dense than things on Earth, that's how Hulk was able to touch Strange
c) The Mindless Ones of the Dark Dimension gave Dormammu fits and he's stated to be about Odin level in power (for sure he's more powerful than Classic Loki). If Hulk really was mowing through them left and right, that's a damn impressive feat
Why does any of those matter when Loki's illusions have directly worked on The Hulk in the past?
Loki's magic is superior to Strange's so what does it matter how The Hulk fared against Strange?
Sorry but Loki's illusions have worked on High End Skyfathers like Surtur (an amped Surtur mind you) and Odin (the Godfather of all Skyfathers); The Hulk aint seeing through them...