current Iron Man Vs Current Colossus

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Worthy Juggernaut = Thunderbolts Juggernaut + Kuurth. Worthy Juggernaut is at best equal to Classic Juggernaut on the latter's average days. And not even close on his best days.

You can't be serious. Worthy Juggernaut is every bit as powerful as Classic Juggernaut and has a superior unstoppable enchantment.

baka

I'm curious, have you actually read comics involving Juggernaut? I personally doubt it if you think Kuurth's rape stomping all Utopia is what you consider an average showing from Juggernaut and not even close to his best days.

His appearances in Thor under DeFalco plus what he's done under the influence of Kuurth are his best portrayals to date I'd wager.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Colossusnaut fought a depowered Worthy Juggernaut, via Cyttorak disowning him. Only a bit of Cytt's power is left due to Cain's exposure to the Ruby over the years.

Okay?

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Colossusnaut got beat up by Depowered Worthy Juggernaut.

And that has to mean that Colossus is weaker than classic Juggernaut despite it being obvious that Peter gained the full power? God forbid that the Worthy are just that powerful and Juggernaut isn't the all end all that people pretend he is.

Juggernaut has never been the strongest guy on the planet and has been hurt plenty of times without his force field. Colossus had his bones damaged which I don't think has ever happened to Cain but that's not conclusive evidence that he's weaker.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
T-Bolts Juggy beat up Thor.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
You can't be serious. Worthy Juggernaut is every bit as powerful as Classic Juggernaut and has a superior unstoppable enchantment.

baka

I'm curious, have you actually read comics involving Juggernaut? I personally doubt it if you think Kuurth's rape stomping all Utopia is what you consider an average showing from Juggernaut and not even close to his best days.

His appearances in Thor under DeFalco plus what he's done under the influence of Kuurth are his best portrayals to date I'd wager.

Kuurth no sold a bunch of shitty ass muties. Nothing special. The only thing he has over Classic Juggernaut is more consistent showings of flight, BFR-resistance, and TP.

And lol. No. Don't flatter yourself. Thor being a non-physical threat to him straight up, or any herald level foe for that matter, is not his best by a long shot, THAT is his average.

Juggernaut at his best is an abstract challenger, with magic comparable to Classic Strange--fighting evenly with foes Classic Strange could not beat, like Classic Nightmare.

He's the guy Beyonder could not hurt, so he had to IIRC BFR him to space. He's the guy Oblivion could not destroy. He's the guy who, even while a good guy, was able to knockdown The Stranger.

Okay?

He fought a weakened Kuurth, and Kuurth at his best was not more powerful than Classic Juggernaut. Period.

And that has to mean that Colossus is weaker than classic Juggernaut despite it being obvious that Peter gained the full power? God forbid that the Worthy are just that powerful and Juggernaut isn't the all end all that people pretend he is.

Juggernaut has never been the strongest guy on the planet and has been hurt plenty of times without his force field. Colossus had his bones damaged which I don't think has ever happened to Cain but that's not conclusive evidence that he's weaker. [/B]

He's not equal to Classic Juggernaut because he's feats don't come close.

Period. You don't get to pick and choose which times you feel your gut feeling can deny feats. It's not 'obvious' because there was no point in the story that pointed to him getting the full power. And his feats speak for themselves so far. It makes Asgard look better to prop up Kuurth being able to break the bones of a supposed Full-power Juggernaut level being, which is why you do it. At best, this whole thing retcons classic Juggernaut levels as being much lower than what we know them as now, at worst, he's simply much weaker than Classic Juggernaut.

Juggernaut has more dynamic levels than anyone on Earth. Anyone. He's as strong and as durable as he needs to be--Marvel editorial said as much. And he's never been overpowered by any other brick.

The meager portion of power he has from Cyttorak is powerful enough to warp reality on a cosmic level, as seen when D'Spayre drained him.

Kuurth at his best seemed more powerful than Juggs at classic levels imo

This is an official quote from the writer of uncanny x-men:

Did Colossus gain the full power of the Juggernaut when he became Cyttorak's avatar?

I'd presume so from what we've seen, though it's clear it's affecting Colossus differently.
KieronGillen responded 6 hours ago

So there you have it. He has the full power of Juggs. A lot of the things you see is just an artist interpritaion of the fight.

1) colossus does not bleed. but he was bleeding in this fight. getting cyttoraks powers make him bleed?

2) he just touched the gem, Why would Cyttorak just give him one half the power of juggs? Its his 1st fight how would cyttorak know if he like causing destruction or not?

3) He is a hero and is based on a team. So you can be sure he will definatley job to villains. A hero who can't get hurt is anti climatic.

4) Classic Juggs power has fluctuated all the time and he has felt pain. It all depends on the story. It will be the same for colossus one fight will make him look unstoppable the next will put him in danger and show how big a threat the villain is.

Interesting part of the answer was that i might affect him differntly. I wonder what does that mean. He is at full power but with a differnt mindset?

It was a fear itself tie in. they wont show the worthy getting owned in a one sided battle. (kuurth was owned by the way) Outside of thor no one has taken down a worthy one on one. how is that not impressive? Colossus is now on that high herald level. The worthy are powered by Asgardian gods.

In this day and age you see superman or thor or the silver surfer get hurt. heroes get hurt. Nothing heroic about about just standing there and shrugging anything and everything off.

facepalm

I'm going to be late but I can't let such silliness slide.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
facepalm

I'm going to be late but I can't let such silliness slide.

Is that aimed at me? 🙁 I was actually agreeing with you that its seems that Colossus was fully powered in his battle vs Kuurth.

Heck the writer himself seems to think so...

rage has a fetish for shitting on classic juggs for some reason

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Kuurth no sold a bunch of shitty ass muties. Nothing special. The only thing he has over Classic Juggernaut is more consistent showings of flight, BFR-resistance, and TP.

Kuurth walked through everything Utopia could throw his way, including it’s more powerful members. Nothing special? Juggernaut fans wish he had those showings. He was just as tough physically, was more versatile, and was literally unstoppable. Everything from teleportation to telepathy to sonics to Rogue's absorption failed. Even his hammer was unstoppable.

For the record, Juggernaut has done far worse against the supposed shitty ass mutants.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
And lol. No. Don't flatter yourself. Thor being a non-physical threat to him straight up, or any herald level foe for that matter, is not his best by a long shot, THAT is his average.

I’m just calling it how I see it. For the record, Thor was a physical threat to the Juggernaut when the force field was removed from the equation. He's not the only herald to rock him with his blows by the way. Haha, okay then.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Juggernaut at his best is an abstract challenger, with magic comparable to Classic Strange--fighting evenly with foes Classic Strange could not beat, like Classic Nightmare.

I don’t know if I should laugh or cry at this. I mean just wow.

Strange has almost always gotten the better of Nightmare one way or another as far as I’ve seen and the reason he was losing this time is because Nightmare finally figured out a counterspell for the Eye of Agamotto:

Tbf, Cain did have a good although extremely random showing:

I don’t even think is has that much relevance as Cain has never cast spells again. At least as far as I know.

Also, I never noticed this before, but Nightmare hurt the Juggernaut with a karate chop.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
He's the guy Beyonder could not hurt, so he had to IIRC BFR him to space.

What issue was this? I hope you aren’t referring to this scene:

Originally posted by CosmicComet
He's the guy Oblivion could not destroy. He's the guy who, even while a good guy, was able to knockdown The Stranger.

Also:

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Do I have to spell out everything for you?

He fought a weakened Kuurth, and Kuurth at his best was not more powerful than Classic Juggernaut. Period.

Apparently you do.

I love it when people make such conclusive statements because there are so easy to undermine. Kuurth was the classic Juggernaut with an upgrade, the intention was quite clear.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
He's not equal to Classic Juggernaut because he's feats don't come close.

How would you know?

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Period. You don't get to pick and choose which times you feel your gut feeling can deny feats. It's not 'obvious' because there was no point in the story that pointed to him getting the full power. And his feats speak for themselves so far. It makes Asgard look better to prop up Kuurth being able to break the bones of a supposed Full-power

I’m not denying anything you spastic. Yes it is obvious based on the transformation. The entire point was that Cain was a traitor and that Cytorrak would pick a new avatar to showcase his power:

The only reason you're so against this is because accepting what happened destroys the illusion you created about Colossus' capabilities as the Juggernaut. IIRC, it was even said that Juggernaut was a Thor level threat on a good day without the upgrade. Although Thor would still wreck him. durthor

But since that isn’t enough for you, here's the writer himself making it clear that he had the full power:

So..........

vin

Get of your high horse, if I’m biased, your just as bad. It makes Juggernaut look better by arguing that Colossus is weaker.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Juggernaut level being, which is why you do it. At best, this whole thing retcons classic Juggernaut levels as being much lower than what we know them as now, at worst, he's simply much weaker than Classic Juggernaut.

Even if you consider it a low showing, it doesn’t have to retcon anything. Juggernaut has been hurt plenty of times without his force field. The myth that Juggernaut is always this invulnerable brick that can’t be hurt physically is just that, a myth.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Juggernaut has more dynamic levels than anyone on Earth. Anyone. He's as strong and as durable as he needs to be--Marvel editorial said as much. And he's never been overpowered by any other brick.

crylaugh

You wouldn't happen to be referring to that Q&A from the back of the Hulk book?

Originally posted by CosmicComet
The meager portion of power he has from Cyttorak is powerful enough to warp reality on a cosmic level, as seen when D'Spayre drained him.

Come again? His own power augmented by the energy of the Crimson Gem allowed him to rebuild the gates to Oblivion so he could summon his horde and attempt to conquer Earth but that scene doesn't exactly fit your description:

He warped most of the inhabitants of that area as well by feeding on them or whatever but that’s hardly warping reality on a cosmic level.

In conclusion, you're crazy, and most writers would probably laugh at your post.

Originally posted by Starscream M
rage has a fetish for shitting on classic juggs for some reason

Originally posted by nwg202
Is that aimed at me? 🙁 I was actually agreeing with you that its seems that Colossus was fully powered in his battle vs Kuurth.

Heck the writer himself seems to think so...

Originally posted by Starscream M
rage has a fetish for shitting on classic juggs for some reason

Most of the time I just try and correct misconceptions revolving around the character but sooner or later I'm going to start hating the Juggernaut if the nonsensical claims that follow him around continue.

Originally posted by cdtm
What did Stark do to Juggernaut? Did he win?

And how is Stark going to get the needle past current Colossus's invulnerability? If he has the same powers Cain did, his skin should be 100% impenetrable except by magic, and even if he somehow got the stuff into his body it's debatable whether the magic would negate its effects..

Cain begged Tony to stop.

Second Round is Normal Colossus. Tony wins both fights.

It's really simple....Colossus is a fully powered avatar of Cyttorak. since he is a hero and is on a team he will not be depicted as someone who cannot get hurt or feel pain.

what kind of stories would you come up with if your hero is totally unbeatable?

Even Galactus and Odin get hurt.

Originally posted by Starscream M
rage has a fetish for shitting on classic juggs for some reason

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
And you have a fetish for being stupid.

I lol'd.

Originally posted by the ninjak
Cain begged Tony to stop.

Second Round is Normal Colossus. Tony wins both fights.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
why the hell would second round be a normal colossus fighting a more powerful iron man 🤨

I dunno, it's your OP 😄

new update from the writer about current Colossus powers

"Schism" and "Fear Itself" are easy -- "Fear Itself" happens before "Schism" (the only thing which would be confusing is Colossus' lack of a Juggernaut dome. However, the end of "Fear Itself" showed he could retract his armor. More will become clear as we go into "Uncanny X-" #1 about Colossus' relationship with the Juggernaut energies, but the short version is "it's something he consciously chooses to tap." In other words, in "Schism," he simply didn't.)

He has the full power but he refuses to use it. He is trying to hold it in. He can probably cut loose anytime but at the cost of his principles and values.

He probably like the Hulk he'l start out at his base cl 100 strength and when things get messy he goes into full juggy mode at the cost of his sanity