Originally posted by Bentley
Shouldn't Colossus be a low herald just like classic Juggs?
hmm.. really? I always though Classic Juggs was high herald. He has been described as a Thor level Character. He might not be as versatile as Thor and the a lot of high heralds. But he is basically unstoppable and immune to harm. He took world war hulk one on one when Hulk was going thru people like blackbolt and Herc etc....
I always though that Hulk, Juggs and Thor were in the same boat. I personally think Thor is the most powerful. But u can argue about the 3 for days on end.
As for Colossus. I'm just going with his one single feat which was impressive. Namor had the entire defenders team (surfer included) for help and they still couldn't put the worthy Attuma down.
Mags was hurling air craft carriers at Kuurth and had the help of the entire mutant community and still came up short. Even Red Hulk and the Avengers got owned by the Worthy.
Outside Thor and maybe ghost rider. The only Hero that could go one on one with the Worthy was the new Colossus. He even manged to defeat him...
Originally posted by nimbus006
The original one you posted is on the weaker side.An Avengers Lineup that would match up better to this X-Men Team is:
Thor
Ironman (BE)
SW (not HOM)
Wonderman
Prof. Hulk
Miss Marvel
Quick Silver
Vision
Cap
That's a pretty strong line up id love to see wanda and magik go at it. hmmm... actually that has a lot of nice match ups. Wonder man vs Namor. Vision vs Danger. Mags vs miss marvel, ironman prof hulk up againts Magneto. Colossus vs Thor...very interesting.
Hope and emma are problems though i just saw emma put down wonder man in the childrens crusade without much effort.
Is that the most powerful offical Avengers roster? I just really got into the Avengers with perez and buisek
Originally posted by nwg202
hmm.. really? I always though Classic Juggs was high herald. He has been described as a Thor level Character. He might not be as versatile as Thor and the a lot of high heralds.
The way the tiers worked back then made versatility the prime factor of being in higher tiers. Also most of the High Heralds have manhandled people who is quite powerful, something they've never allowed Juggs to do.
Originally posted by Bentley
The way the tiers worked back then made versatility the prime factor of being in higher tiers. Also most of the High Heralds have manhandled people who is quite powerful, something they've never allowed Juggs to do.
Well if the main requirement is versatility then Juggs and Hulk are out.
But head to head.. the 3 just go on in circles with Thor being the most powerful and versatile. Hulk just keeps getting stronger and just keeps on healing and Juggs being unstopable with insane durabilty and regen like the Hulk.
so all 3 side just keep arguing since Thor has the most options available while Juggs and Hulk just cant be killed with their regen.
So in this battle i just see Colossus and Thor slugging it out while magik just sneaks behind and stabs him with the soul sword from behind. Thor can bfr colossus thru teleportation or throwing him into space but magik can just bring him back...
The reasoning about the matches that you glossed over, is that while physical power is one main reference in comic fights, it's still just one kind of fight. If you get an excellent physical challenger, and a more powerful psychic characters, you have to debate not about "overall power", because those matchups will be decided by how powersets compete at each other and are not just fixed by actual fights. Juggernaut's powerset is good to deal with most of what Thor can ditch, but other characters much less powerful would put him into trouble.
Both Hulk and Juggernaut and more than simple bricks, but are still more one-dimensional than say, Superman. The reasoning is that because of those limitations they will find many more negative matchups regardless of their "power level". The reasoning, of course, has it's flaws, but it was not intended to be perfect.
Originally posted by Bentley
The reasoning about the matches that you glossed over, is that while physical power is one main reference in comic fights, it's still just one kind of fight. If you get an excellent physical challenger, and a more powerful psychic characters, you have to debate not about "overall power", because those matchups will be decided by how powersets compete at each other and are not just fixed by actual fights. Juggernaut's powerset is good to deal with most of what Thor can ditch, but other characters much less powerful would put him into trouble.Both Hulk and Juggernaut and more than simple bricks, but are still more one-dimensional than say, Superman. The reasoning is that because of those limitations they will find many more negative matchups regardless of their "power level". The reasoning, of course, has it's flaws, but it was not intended to be perfect.
I agree... like any sport, it is all about the match ups. It's a combination of versatility and raw power. Both storm and mags are more versatile then Colossus but they lacked the raw power to put down Kuurth, while Colossus could. If you wanted to kill iceman you would rather have emma then Colossus with gem, even if emma isn't on the level of Colossus power wise. Just like emma would have a much easier time dealing with a flyer like wonderman than Current Colossus.( since he cant fly)
Which is what makes this x-team so strong. They have both versatility and raw power.
Originally posted by nwg202
Is that the most powerful offical Avengers roster? I just really got into the Avengers with perez and buisek
Most Powerful? Def not...
The thing is, the Avengers have had so many lineups (honorary members and such) over the years, it's hard to come up with a "most powerful lineup". However, I'll give it a shot.
Including honorary members:
Thor
Savage Hulk (current was never technically a member)
Scarlet Witch
Captain Marvel (Mar-vell)
Sersi
Sentry
Wonderman
Dr. Strange
Iron Man
edit: I just noticed you said "official", lol.
Technically, the only unofficial one in the list above is Mar-vell.
Originally posted by nimbus006
Most Powerful? Def not...The thing is, the Avengers have had so many lineups (honorary members and such) over the years, it's hard to come up with a "most powerful lineup". However, I'll give it a shot.
Including honorary members:
Thor
Savage Hulk (current was never technically a member)
Scarlet Witch
Captain Marvel (Mar-vell)
Sersi
Sentry
Wonderman
Dr. Strange
Iron Manedit: I just noticed you said "official", lol.
Technically, the only unofficial one in the list above is Mar-vell.
Oh sorry, I didn't make my self clear when i meant official i meant like an actual roster much like the current x-men and avengers in this fight. The 9 x-men are the "official" team for uncanny. like a canon "line up". Yup the Avengers do have a lot of heavy hitters in their ranks.
So if this x-men team is being touted as the most powerful "official" line up of all time for the x-side what's the avengers version?
This x-team has a defenders vibe going on.. hope(potentially)=surfer, hulk=colossus, magik(limbo at least)=strange and namor=namor. Not exactly of course but similar roles..
Originally posted by nwg202
Oh sorry, I didn't make my self clear when i meant official i meant like an actual roster much like the current x-men and avengers in this fight. The 9 x-men are the "official" team for uncanny. like a canon "line up". Yup the Avengers do have a lot of heavy hitters in their ranks.So if this x-men team is being touted as the most powerful "official" line up of all time for the x-side what's the avengers version?
This x-team has a defenders vibe going on.. hope(potentially)=surfer, hulk=colossus, magik(limbo at least)=strange and namor=namor. Not exactly of course but similar roles..
Ah, I see.
Well, then yea, perhaps the team I previously mentioned might be it.
I saw magik use her teleport discs in the most creative way in an old new mutants issue. She was using them as shields ala captain america so all the laser and bulletes would just get BFR'd
She also redirected some blasts and a blitz by forming two discs, basically turned the blast on its owner. Seems like she can form the discs instantly. and she also set up a battle with a a lot of discs not sure what her limit is. but the picutre had more then 20 id wager....very powerful stuff
Another intresting use was she bascially bfr'd a robot army to limbo where she had her powerful demons wating to feed on them
Let's say red hulk tries to punch her teleport shield and she dumps him in a black hole?
I'm especially curious about this scenario..what if Thor threw his hammer and magik's bfr the hammer to another dimension like cyttorak's or a black hole? Will the hammer teleport itsself back? How long will it take for the hammer to find Thor again?
Can she redirect a god blast? since technically its not a shield its not stopping the blast...shes just redirecting it like the lasers and bullets