The Two Johns - Preston v. McClane.

In the Nakatomi Plaza of "Die Hard," all innocent citizens have been evacuated. The electricity is out, but there are police spotlights sweeping the building. This means no elevators, no televisions on which to see the news... etc.

John Preston has been assigned to "retire" Hans Gruber, the terrorist, as his greed and wrath have made him a Sense Offender.

John McClane is in the building to reconcile with his wife, but when the crisis starts, begins to hunt down Hans Gruber in order to keep him from blowing up the building.

Both are willing to go to the death to capture Gruber. Both are willing to kill the other in order to get to Gruber first.

In the Plaza, there are a few more minor terrorists, but most of them have fled. Gruber is in one room, but it is not known where. He will stay in this room until he is captured.

John Preston is armed with his two guns, and can perform gun kata. He also has lots of extra ammo. He has not yet started to skip his emotion-suppressing pills. Preston starts with no idea as to where Gruber might be.

Please use this scene as a reference to John Preston's abilities.

http://youtu.be/dGhF-j1lbzo

John McClane has his NYCPD-issued gun, and he discovers C4 and more ammo as he moves through the building. He also recovers a two-way radio from a dead guard, and so is able to learn a very little about the schematics of the building, but the terrorists speak German, and McClane doesn't know the language. He has the abilities to improvise, but Lady Luck does not shine on him nearly as often as she does in the film.

[I'm looking of a clip of the part where McClane is barefoot, walking on shattered glass, and still manages to do some damage.. any of you McClane-ians know which I'm talking of? Please PM me.

Who gets to Hans Gruber first?

Preston

John Preston finds Gruber with his ultra-hearing abilities (note the scene where he could pin-point every single EC-10 offender in the room when the lights were out).

John Preston also makes short work of McClane, bare-handed, if he runs across John McClane at any point during his ascension to Gruby.

In short, John McClane is made a punk b**** in this scenario, 10 out of 10 times, without fail or mistake from Preston.

Would this change if Preston had started skipping his pills, do you think?

Does McClane have any chance - what would I need to give him to give him a possible win?
I'm just trying to make a semi-even thread.

H2H McClane's assets of durability and luck might be his only two chances against Preston. I recall Preston being really good.

Good thread idea.

Lemme rewatch the movie before I come in with a solid opinion.

This thread is based on a false premise that Preston would harm McClane to begin with.

Little known fact, McClane was the promordial Grammaton Cleric; Gunkata was spawned from him; his many gun battles were the earliest data used in the calculations. Though it was twisted by evil men in the future as a means to enforce totalitarianism, instead of defeating would-be thieves and terrorist.

So in a sense, Preston is McClane perfected at the end of Equilibrium, an unstoppable force for justice.

Good point.

I hadn't considered that. 🙂

Even though McClane may have been a pioneer in the art of Gunkata.

Preston is a learned and heavily experienced practitioner of the art fully realised in a future society.

Preston takes this most likely.

Originally posted by the ninjak
Even though McClane may have been a pioneer in the art of Gunkata.

Preston is a learned and heavily experienced practitioner of the art fully realised in a future society.

Preston takes this most likely.

Preston does likely take this and McClane like a proud teacher looks on in admiration.

There's no bigger compliment to a teacher than to be surpassed by your student.

Very true.

Originally posted by Robtard
Preston does likely take this and McClane like a proud teacher looks on in admiration.

There's no bigger compliment to a teacher than to be surpassed by your student.

Like Ali/Larry Holmes

Similarly Preston wouldl always live in McClane's shadow.

doesn't Preston guest star in Die Hard 5?? 😄

Originally posted by siriuswriter
Would this change if Preston had started skipping his pills, do you think?

No, Preston become even more of a badass after stopping his pills.

Originally posted by siriuswriter
Does McClane have any chance - what would I need to give him to give him a possible win?
I'm just trying to make a semi-even thread.

In order for McClane to win, you'd need about 20 McClanes, armed to the teeth, to win. Not kidding. We know because Preston took on about 20 of the Cleric's best soliders (the ones guarding the "Father"😉 who were armed will fully automatic assault rifles and what appeared to be body armor...and Preston took them all on without even as much as a bullet graze.

Originally posted by Robtard
This thread is based on a false premise that Preston would harm McClane to begin with.

Little known fact, McClane was the promordial Grammaton Cleric; Gunkata was spawned from him; his many gun battles were the earliest data used in the calculations. Though it was twisted by evil men in the future as a means to enforce totalitarianism, instead of defeating would-be thieves and terrorist.

So in a sense, Preston is McClane perfected at the end of Equilibrium, an unstoppable force for justice.

😆 😆 😆

WTF?

I did not think that "this" was possible.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No, Preston become even more of a badass after stopping his pills.

Yes and no. He became a bigger bad-ass when he learned how to remove all emotion by will alone. So it depends if this is Preston pill-less and out of control Preston or pill-less and SSJ10 Preston.

Originally posted by Robtard
Yes and no. He became a bigger bad-ass when he learned how to remove all emotion by will alone. So it depends if this is Preston pill-less and out of control Preston or pill-less and SSJ10 Preston.

No, that's not what happened.

He became a bigger badass BECAUSE his emotions (rage and anger) facilitated his will to win. He could barely control his emotions when he LET them capture him and submit him to that futuristic polygraph test.

It was after that that he utterly and completely wtf raappped the Clergy.

The clergy were douches.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
The clergy were douches.

My brain hurts, now, because I just thought about your use of the word "were":

Equilibrium occurs in the future, making "will be stupid" correct and "were" wrong.

However, the movie came out in 2000-2001, making were correct.

However, Equilibrium is a potential future/alternate reality still making "were" incorrect if used that way.

The clergy "were" killed in the timeline of the film, making "were" correct.

However, the clergy "will be" killed in that potential future, as well, making "were" incorrect.

These are the irritating problems that I encounter, from time to time: no proper solutions without proper context. 😐

Originally posted by dadudemon
No, that's not what happened.

He became a bigger badass BECAUSE his emotions (rage and anger) facilitated his will to win. He could barely control his emotions when he LET them capture him and submit him to that futuristic polygraph test.

It was after that that he utterly and completely wtf raappped the Clergy.

Um, no. He was weak after he stopped since he was barraged by emotions he's never felt before, I think we can both agree on this.

While initially on the polygraph, he was more of an emotional wreck as more time had pasted since he stopped using.

Then suddenly *blam*, he shuts off all emotion by will alone (hence the straight lines on the polygraph) and becomes an uber-uber killing machine.

Originally posted by dadudemon
My brain hurts, now, because I just thought about your use of the word "were":

Equilibrium occurs in the future, making "will be stupid" correct and "were" wrong.

However, the movie came out in 2000-2001, making were correct.

However, Equilibrium is a potential future/alternate reality still making "were" incorrect if used that way.

The clergy "were" killed in the timeline of the film, making "were" correct.

However, the clergy "will be" killed in that potential future, as well, making "were" incorrect.

These are the irritating problems that I encounter, from time to time: no proper solutions without proper context. 😐

All that brain hurt because you didn't deduce immediately that I simply referred to my watching of it in past tense, basically, then.

Speaking of improper context:

'Will be' would be incorrect in terms of a potential future.
'Could be/would be/may be/might be' would be more accurately useable. 😐

😛

Originally posted by dadudemon
My brain hurts, now, because I just thought about your use of the word "were":

Equilibrium occurs in the future, making "will be stupid" correct and "were" wrong.

However, the movie came out in 2000-2001, making were correct.

However, Equilibrium is a potential future/alternate reality still making "were" incorrect if used that way.

The clergy "were" killed in the timeline of the film, making "were" correct.

However, the clergy "will be" killed in that potential future, as well, making "were" incorrect.

These are the irritating problems that I encounter, from time to time: no proper solutions without proper context. 😐

Sadako used 'were' because he watched the movie in the past. So when he was referring to them he was talking about his own past experience watching them in the movie in which they were stupid.