Anakin Skywalker (ROTS Vader) vs. Palpatine

Originally posted by dadudemon
To me, it works out really well and is far from lazy. I consider it more canon than anything EU. I consider it canon to the movies and it can only be "trumped" by something Lucas says that contradicts it.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Well...really

Dooku >> Obi Wan

Anakin >> Dooku (when Anakin is not being stupid.

So...

Anakin >>>> Obi Wan....when he's not being stupid.

However, somehow...Anakin is not enough to take on Sidious.

You're just ignoring everything else, because the Dooku fight was the only thing that was inconsistent.

If you go into EU, I believe Anakin beating Dooku is explained somewhat.

But just going by the film, Dooku took Obi Wan out with the force when the opportunity arose. I would say Anakin would've fared no better were he in the same position. Anakin then beating Dooku in a saber fight though, I would agree is something that Obi Wan could likely not have replicated, BUT the feat is inconsistent without an explanation, which is not provided in the film.

You can use all the A>B>C logic you want (while ignoring some facts), but there is nothing more conclusive than the one-one fight between Anakin and Obi-Wan. Even though Obi Wan ultimately won, I would say they are still about the same. The force push impasse was indicative of that.

Now regarding Anakin beating Palpatine, thats just ridiculous. You think he could've won where Yoda failed? How about a dosage of lightning to the face Anakin? He has no defense unless you can convince us that Anakin's mastery of the force is on par with Mace or Yoda's (which is a joke). Put Anakin in Yoda's position and he would've been:

* Electrocuted
* Crushed by Pods
* Minced

Who has the higher ground?

131

Edit: Regarding the Dooku match, isn't there a rock-paper-scissors kind of thing between lightsaber styles?

Originally posted by Placidity
You're just ignoring everything else, because the Dooku fight was the only thing that was inconsistent.

If you go into EU, I believe Anakin beating Dooku is explained somewhat.

But just going by the film, Dooku took Obi Wan out with the force when the opportunity arose. I would say Anakin would've fared no better were he in the same position. Anakin then beating Dooku in a saber fight though, I would agree is something that Obi Wan could likely not have replicated, BUT the feat is inconsistent without an explanation, which is not provided in the film.

You can use all the A>B>C logic you want (while ignoring some facts), but there is nothing more conclusive than the one-one fight between Anakin and Obi-Wan. Even though Obi Wan ultimately won, I would say they are still about the same. The force push impasse was indicative of that.

Now regarding Anakin beating Palpatine, thats just ridiculous. You think he could've won where Yoda failed? How about a dosage of lightning to the face Anakin? He has no defense unless you can convince us that Anakin's mastery of the force is on par with Mace or Yoda's (which is a joke). Put Anakin in Yoda's position and he would've been:

* Electrocuted
* Crushed by Pods
* Minced

Just a saber duel when Anakin, as others put it, is in the zone, would net Anakin a victory, IMO.

I have already supported the why. It is not contradictable because that is my opinion. The closet we have to getting something definitive is Lucas saying, "Anakin could have defeated the Emperor"...and in context, it was to an Anakin that did not fall on Mustafar.

I take that to mean that Anakin could have defeated him pre-suit IF he hadn't lost to Obi Wan. I support that position with the non-canon ending of the episode III game where he strikes down Obi Wan and then strikes down Palpatine and becomes the Emperor.

Others say that it refers to another statement that Lucas made about Anakin having the potential to be more powerful (twice?) as the emperor and Luke is what Anakin could have become. That's where we get our uber powered NJO Luke from: those statements.

In the finality of it all, Vader becomes only 80% of the Emperor. That's suited.

I do not see any concrete statements from Lucas, anywhere, in all the years this has been discussed, that states that "in teh zone" Anakin could not defeat Sidious in a saber duel. Until I see something from Lucas that directly contradicts that position, I will continue to maintain that Luke could beat Sidious IF in the zone.

Also, I'm sure Anakin trained up on force lightning since his little adventure against Sidious. I bet you could find something in the clone wars TV series or the clone wars CGI movie. 😄