Does this sound like plausible

Yes! Mirren's IN!

hey, i've been lurking around the thread for a bit, sorry this is a bit late, but I'm going to chop from parts of your posts, just because you have clarified some other stuff since.

Originally posted by Lestov16
I know it sounds campy. I'm not looking for Tom Clancy-level realism. Brad Thor-level is what I'm aiming for (without the rampant jingoist Islamophobia, of course). I might have it as just one high-up who authorizes the betrayal. But I want the betrayal to get results, so it can be argued as necessary

I didn't mean campy as bad. Sometimes the reason something is a cliche is because it hits a part of each of our psyches where we are talking about some sort of assumed universal truths.

People accept that the powerful do corrupt and terrible things. Just because it might be campy to have "rouge CIA agent pragmatically betrays his friends for patriotism" as a premise, it doesn't mean the hook doesn't work. You said it yourself, or at least alluded with the fact that the betrayal can be argued as necessary. There IS a logic to this type of calculated villain, and it is why it works so well. That evil person who is driven by some overarching sense of duty hits everyone in an uncomfortable place, right? so please, don't take that as criticism so much as to say, if you are going to rely on these archetypes, there are probably other things that you can play to rather than trying to be literally accurate.

For instance, in the sort of summary you describe, you say:

Originally posted by Lestov16
Deputy Director (on orders from some White House Official) leaked his name to a powerful criminal in exchange for info on a major terrorist leader (who has recently been performing many bombings)

the unfortunate truth is that, in any realistic scenario, the "action" part of your novel is now over. The CIA agent takes this information to some other branch of the government or press, and the remainder of your novel is senate hearings, impeachment proceedings and so forth. The judicial infrastructure, or at least the journalistic infrastructure, is already there to deal with this type of crime. For the media, this type of thing is a wet dream, as it would ensure some form of award for being the one to break the story. Any aspiring politician would love to cut their teeth taking the administration to task on an issue like this. Hell, the "Fast and Furious" debacle wasn't half as treasonous or terrible as what you are describing and there are fairly public hearings ongoing about that.

If your world is the cliche world where power corrupts all and it is plausible that a rogue CIA agent would wage a vendetta war against his own government/criminals, the intricacies of political institutions are not so important, because the audience you are targeting wants this sort of surreal action and visceral experience rather than a technical look at political power.

For instance, this is why I think Equilibrium works so well as an action flick. It has a trite concept, its characters are archetypal at best and the story is as formulaic as it is contrived. Yet, everything it does well, its action sequences, the gun kata, the choreography, it is breathtaking and totally immerses you in a universe that, you know, probably doesn't make perfect logical sense, but god damn, you want to be there and ninja fight with bullets so bad!

Actually, I think you may have totally nailed this with your reference to Tom Clancy. imho, he isn't actually that amazing of a writer in terms of the realism we are discussing here. Certainly his stories are complex, and I am not taking the piss at all, seriously, but in terms of an accurate reflection of logical sequences of events that might happen geopolitically, I don't think that is his selling point. The details he does know are things like intricate specifications about military equipment and things specific to what his readers are going to really want to know for their experience.

Originally posted by Lestov16
I mean how do the criminals even know where to start looking?
**************

Well, it really depends on the context, what did the agent do to get this criminal organization's attention? However, I do agree with Robtard, if the agent's identity is already known, and the criminal organization you are talking about has access to black market nukes, or at least to the goings on in that market, there is no realistic reason why they would need to trade. Realistically, that criminal organization would have espionage capacity easily great enough to track down someone they already knew the identity of.

I suppose I just said "don't worry about realism" in so many words, but like, to have them trade for the agent's identity versus simply just his location seems just as useful as a plot-point, builds a bit of mystique and power into your criminal group ("we just need a name, the rest we can do alone"😉, not to mention realism, and is a far greater act of betrayal, really making your villain look like a dick.

In terms of stuff to look up on this, I might even suggest looking at the recent intelligence operation by Hezbollah in Lebanon, where what the media talk about in terms of "cave dwelling trrists" outsmarted the CIA using cellular technology and effectively neutralized most of the agents they had working for them. Also, the current "cyber" war between Anonymous and various Mexican drug cartels might be useful, just to give an impression of what sophistication criminal organizations might have in terms of espionage. Of course, if you are looking for examples of just technical sophistication from criminal groups in general, the Eastern European and Russian gangs are good, as are hacker groups from Brazil, and obviously the nationalist Chinese.

Originally posted by Lestov16
I know, but I'm OCD about plot holes (Damn that Redlettermedia review!)

See, I wouldn't worry much about that. Haters gonna hate. I'm probably terrible to take advice from, as my writing is more academic than narrative, but like, I think there is always a trade. Details and mood are different, almost oppositional things, in that, when you take space on a page to describe one, you lose the other. Now, for sure, you need details about mood relevant items, but those details serve to enhance the experience. Unless you feel there is something that needs essentially some type of literal description to move the story forward, I'd say focusing on drawing the reader into the mood is going to benefit you more than drawing the reader into meticulous details about how the power systems work.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Do you know where I could start? The only thing I've been able to find was about the Plame affair

there are tonnes of examples, and I suppose it really depends more on what you want examples of, but I'd say for sure start with a look at Oliver North and his behaviour while head of the NSA. In the wake of 9-11, Robert Behr and Richard Clarke wrote good books that sort of talk about day-to-day workings of being a spy or the attitudes of people who work in intelligence, but as with all this stuff, there is a lot of bravado.

Actually, that might be a way to take this. A lot of the "stories" about "spy games" during the cold war are actually fabrications that the spies themselves came up with because of all the rumors they constantly heard. Some type of conspiratorial paranoia in the rogue agent might be good, idk...

Originally posted by Lestov16
The protagonists family is killed in a car bomb (meant for him). The CIA will not allow him to investigate. He goes rogue and discovers that the Deputy Director (on orders from some White House Official) leaked his name to a powerful criminal in exchange for info on a major terrorist leader (who has recently been performing many bombings), violating the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982 for what they patriotically believe is the greater good. The info the criminal gives them checks out and they stop they attack, saving thousands, but the protagonist wants revenge, and the criminal agrees to be a CIA asset, and offers the location of a major WMD being sold on the black market if they find and kill the protagonist

Please somebody! Point out the flaws!

save what I said above, it isn't bad, and will probably work well as a basic premise for the type of thing you are aiming for.

I know this is just a synopsis you through at us quickly, but I'd say the main conflict and climax does need to be fleshed out a bit. Who is the main antagonist? Is the agent fighting the CIA? the criminals? both? some weird CIA/criminal amalgamation? etc.

Originally posted by inimalist
Who is the main antagonist? Is the agent fighting the CIA? the criminals? both? some weird CIA/criminal amalgamation? etc.

One of my larger problems. I'm not sure how to play this. There are so many routes to choose from. I know the criminal will be hunting him down, but I'm not sure how to fit the CIA in:

- CIA simply want the protagonist dead so that he will not expose the conspiracy
- criminal bargained for CIA to kill him in exchange for more info when original attempt fails
- criminal is a valuable CIA asset, and CIA don't want to apprehend him

or some merge?
Do any of these sound plausible for the audience to not be confused?

The more I read, the more I get the impression you're "all over the place" with this story. May I suggest, get back to basics.

- Who is your main character? Remember, any story is ultimately about a character (not theme, not plot) and how he/she changes as events unfold.
- What is the character's motivation?
- Develop backstory. Get to know all your characters and environment, write notes and notes on them if you have to (keeping in mind that most of this backstory will never see the light of day).
- While not all writers follow this approach, some find it useful to develop a general story outline.

If you develop all these things properly, your story could well end up writing itself. One of the coolest things about writing is seeing a character do something that the author had not initially planned.

Originally posted by Mindship
The more I read, the more I get the impression you're "all over the place" with this story. May I suggest, get back to basics.

- Who is your main character? Remember, any story is ultimately about a character (not theme, not plot) and how he/she changes as events unfold.
- What is the character's motivation?
- Develop backstory. Get to know all your characters and environment, write notes and notes on them if you have to (keeping in mind that most of this backstory will never see the light of day).
- While not all writers follow this approach, some find it useful to develop a general story outline.

If you develop all these things properly, your story could well end up writing itself. One of the coolest things about writing is seeing a character do something that the author had not initially planned.

That's the thing, this is the backstory (to another story)

Years ago, a corrupt senator and his oil cabal had a cia team assassinate a prime minister who was going to nationalize his oil fields. now, years later, one of the team members threatens to sell info about the op to a rival politician. the corrupt senator and his cia henchmen kill him and go to kill every other team member to be safe. one retired team member's family is killed in an attempt on his life, and he goes for revenge

POINT OUT AS MANY PLOT HOLES AS YOU CAN FIND

Originally posted by Lestov16
Years ago, a corrupt senator and his oil cabal had a cia team assassinate a prime minister who was going to nationalize his oil fields. now, years later, one of the team members threatens to sell info about the op to a rival politician. the corrupt senator and his cia henchmen kill him and go to kill every other team member to be safe. one retired team member's family is killed in an attempt on his life, and he goes for revenge

[B]POINT OUT AS MANY PLOT HOLES AS YOU CAN FIND [/B]

Not bad, but didn't Mel Gibson do that movie? jk

Originally posted by Digi
It was all a dream (within a dream). The man who sells CIA secrets is really a 25-year-old female stripper trying to pay her way through college. A group of broke but brilliant computer nerds are trying to imprint the idea of selling her values into her so that they can entice her into sex.

....

So, like, what's the context here? What exactly are you looking for? Is this a script, your next door neighbor, a class project?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Not bad, but didn't Mel Gibson do that movie? jk

If anything, I'd be surprised if Steven "Fat Bastard" Segal didn't make a low-budget film with this premise

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Not bad, but didn't Mel Gibson do that movie? jk

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
No no, it was Matt Damon. I think it was called the Born Supremity, or something.

Oh ya, I remember, watching all three of those movies, in one night.

Originally posted by Lestov16

POINT OUT AS MANY PLOT HOLES AS YOU CAN FIND

I just did, it was Matt Damon. God, anything for attention...

Why would a former agent sell state secrets to a rival politician. I could understand the motive for selling them, but would a politician act on that info?

Originally posted by Lestov16
Why would a former agent sell state secrets to a rival politician. I could understand the motive for selling them, but would a politician act on that info?

What if it was a set up?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What if it was a set up?

a set-up by whom?

Originally posted by Lestov16
a set-up by whom?

Himself, since he suffers from Dissociative Identity Disorder. The plot thickens.

I'm generally confused.

Retired CIA agent
Thugs who want to kill him
CIA gives away his retirement location to said thugs
They off his family for one reason, and not him
He goes ssj99999999999
Prevents a lot of suicide bombers from going to hell

Maybe the terrorist cell want this agent dead because he killed one of their leaders, and they want revenge, and the agent who sold him out is an homegrown terrorist in cahoots with the terrorist cell?

Originally posted by Thoren
I'm generally confused.

Retired CIA agent
Thugs who want to kill him
CIA gives away his retirement location to said thugs
They off his family for one reason, and not him
He goes ssj99999999999
Prevents a lot of suicide bombers from going to hell

Maybe the terrorist cell want this agent dead because he killed one of their leaders, and they want revenge, and the agent who sold him out is an homegrown terrorist in cahoots with the terrorist cell?

I decided not to go with this plot because it cast too sympathetic a light on the government conspirators (the villains). Could you give my new plot a look through though and tell me what doesn't make sense about that?

Originally posted by Lestov16
Years ago, a corrupt senator and his oil cabal had a cia team assassinate a prime minister who was going to nationalize his oil fields. now, years later, one of the team members threatens to sell info about the op to a rival politician. the corrupt senator and his cia henchmen kill him and go to kill every other team member to be safe. one retired team member's family is killed in an attempt on his life, and he goes for revenge

[B]POINT OUT AS MANY PLOT HOLES AS YOU CAN FIND [/B]

Either the Senator is on some sort of oversight committee, or he and the Director of the CIA are in it together.
Don't say henchmen, they're assets. And let them be unawares, let them be misguided by the motives of the Senator/anyone else he is working with.
Don't make it a Prime Minister, make a foreign dignitary, but maybe someone like Minister of Agriculture, who doesn't want oil to be drilled, and they need him out of the way, so the can get dibs on the oil.
Make the Agent who wants to sell the info, actually be a good guy, maybe he wants to give the info, not sell it, to the media, which would expose the whole conflict.
He is hunted down and killed, but before he is, he's given the info to his teammates. And have them on the run, fighting to stay alive.

That's what I got. srug