Originally posted by Q99
It's always funny when someone insists a character matchup happens different than what happens in the comics between fairly regular foes (like Elektra vs DD).
The last time they fought Elektra stood there and let Matt wail on her... and she still put him in a full nelson quickly the moment she made any effort to engage him. She's beat Daredevil every time they've fought, even before her death, resurrection and substantial speed, strength, speed and power amp, she was edging him out in combat. She's better than Matt, and according to her she knows how to avoid his radar sense, he stands not chance of beating her in a fight, and there is little in the way of on panel evidence to suggest otherwise.
Originally posted by cdtm
Rage stomps?So, who did you say you believe Cass can beat again? Or even tie? Batman, Captain America, Daredevil....?
Just wondering.
No top tier street level MA. She can narrowly edge out Shiva after a hard fought fight solely because of CIS. Every 10 top street level martial artist would beat Cass in h2h. Nightwing was even confident he could beat her eventually even before his substantial RIP skill amp, do with that information what you will. Cass is over rated.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Nightwing was even confident he could beat her eventually even before his substantial RIP skill amp, do with that information what you will.
And note that Cass had the upper hand in the fight despite what he said.
The only fight they had where he really did hold his own was after Bruce died.
She can narrowly edge out Shiva after a hard fought fight solely because of CIS. Every 10 top street level martial artist would beat Cass in h2h. Nightwing was even confident he could beat her eventually even before his substantial RIP skill amp, do with that information what you will. Cass is over rated.
Oh yes, the "Her entire history of fighting top-10 martial artists is PIS, even though it happens often and there are no times when any of them ever do better than stalemate her" hypothesis 🙂
Conner, Batman, Shiva (multiple times, during which Shiva was *never* said to be holding back or anything of the sort), Deathstroke, Vera Black mimicing Deathstroke, Black Canary, Nightwing... yes, all~l of how she compares against them is PIS 😆
When your argument is pretty much someone's entire career is PIS, you really should just stop.
Originally posted by Q99
And note that Cass had the upper hand in the fight despite what he said.The only fight they had where he really did hold his own was after Bruce died.
Oh yes, the "Her entire history of fighting top-10 martial artists is PIS, even though it happens often and there are no times when any of them ever do better than stalemate her" hypothesis 🙂
Conner, Batman, Shiva (multiple times, during which Shiva was *never* said to be holding back or anything of the sort), Deathstroke, Vera Black mimicing Deathstroke, Black Canary, Nightwing... yes, all~l of how she compares against them is PIS 😆
When your argument is pretty much someone's entire career is PIS, you really should just stop.
Actually Dick said that in another story before that brief fight in BftC. Dick stalemated her in that fight during BftC before Alfred showed up, and that was before Dick was given an arbitrary skill amp for becoming Batman.
That list of names is more impressive than the "fights" that accompany them. Her "fight" with Connor was her attacking him because she thought he was an assassin, him holding his own while trying to reason with her and avoid a fight... and then Eddie dropping her with a blackjack. Her "fight with Canary was three pages where Canary avoided an ambush, tagged Cass twice and blocked the one attack Cass managed to levy against her. Nightwing isn't a top 10 MA and he still managed to stalemate her. Her "fight" with Batman was Batman holding back and trying to avoid conflict, while still more than holding his own. Vera Black and Cass were just putting on a show, it wasn't a real fight. Deathstroke was holding back. Batgirl admitted the only reason she was able to beat Shiva is because deep down Shiva wanted Cass to kill her.
Actually Dick said that in another story before that brief fight in BftC.
Yes, I did refer to two separate fights for a reason. In the first one he said he thought he could win... but she still had the advantage in the actual fighting.
Dick stalemated her in that fight during BftC before Alfred showed up, and that was before Dick was given an arbitrary skill amp for becoming Batman.
Bzzt, wrong. That was like, literally a day or two before becoming Batman. So he'd have the skill amp there as well.
That list of names is more impressive than the "fights" that accompany them. Her "fight" with Connor was her attacking him because she thought he was an assassin, him holding his own while trying to reason with her and avoid a fight... and then Eddie dropping her with a blackjack.
She got hit with the blackjack on purpose so she could hear them talk and find out the truth, and revealed she was never KOed by it at all 🙂
'Him holding his own' also involved him getting hit a lot.
Her "fight with Canary was three pages where Canary avoided an ambush, tagged Cass twice and blocked the one attack Cass managed to levy against her.
*Then* Cass said "Is this a joke?" and proceeded to knock her down and get a palm to the throat. Nice to leave that out.
There's also that she goes to Cass for training.
Nightwing isn't a top 10 MA and he still managed to stalemate her.
Only after Batman RIP, mind you. She had the advantage in the Redemption Road miniseries (the one where he claimed he could win), and has previously brushed him aside easily too (kicked him through a window when he tried to stop the big Batman/Batgirl fight).
Her "fight" with Batman was Batman holding back and trying to avoid conflict, while still more than holding his own.
What an interesting way of saying "he had to retreat against her the entire issue and play defensive" 🙂 You say 'while still holding his own' as if it was harder to avoid being hit while running a lot, rather than him running a lot being how he avoided her.
Remember, he was not once trying to stop the fight. He wanted to fight with her to communicate. He was still retreating constantly.
Also, they were both under influence of Soul, meaning they weren't/couldn't be holding back.
Don't forget the other time in sparing where she got a hit on him that made him cough up blood without him even noticing.
Deathstroke was holding back.
In one fight out of three, while in the other two he wasn't, and he openly admits he can't hit her without getting in her head in the third one. Hey, nice lying 🙂
And note that when he holds back, she has the flat-out advantage.
Batgirl admitted the only reason she was able to beat Shiva is because deep down Shiva wanted Cass to kill her.
Bzzt. Cassandra simply noted that all of Shiva's fights have been Shiva looking for her own death. I.e. that applies to every Shiva fight ever.
C'mon, you've been corrected on this stuff before. You leave something major out of *every fight*.
Guess I should expect no better from a lying lier that lies.