Dante vs Hazama

Originally posted by No End N Site
And why not?

Why is it that The Thing, being a sentient rock, can move? Why is it that Human Torch can fly, rather than slowly spread?

Essentially, unless you have some evidence that them being made of electricity means they move that fast, I won't buy that they are.

That is game-play. I can show you 1000 other vids of VG characters dodging electricity in gameplay.

It's not actually. The player has no control over Hazama when he does that, it is a pre-battle scene.

Granted with the 1/480,000th. Okay, the Haz is really damn fast. Gotta get back into BB. However, Haz's reaction speed 2.08333333ms and Dante's is in DMC3, without DT is 5.10435ms or m/s (mach 15). Not that huge a difference.

Uh, it's an astronomical difference. Hazama, assuming he moved only a meter (He didn't), would be 480,000 meters per second. Relius was able to attack and kill Terumi's current body in that time.

Blazblue characters are fast as hell yo.

With Dante's strength, coupled with DT, Haz is gonna need more than a speed edge to win. Haz needs more showings.

Hazama does need more showings, mostly in strength. Can't think of many concrete strength showings in the series.

But Terumi does have soul and telepathy hax of a pretty decent level. He casually mindraped Tager and Noel, as well as the soul ripping I spoke of above.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Why is it that The Thing, being a sentient rock, can move? Why is it that Human Torch can fly, rather than slowly spread?

Essentially, unless you have some evidence that them being made of electricity means they move that fast, I won't buy that they are.

It's not actually. The player has no control over Hazama when he does that, it is a pre-battle scene.

Uh, it's an astronomical difference. Hazama, assuming he moved only a meter (He didn't), would be 480,000 meters per second. Relius was able to attack and kill Terumi's current body in that time.

But Terumi does have soul and telepathy hax of a pretty decent level. He casually mindraped Tager and Noel, as well as the soul ripping I spoke of above.

The characters you name are men turned mutants. Blitz's transform into trails of electricity.

Your logic is backwards. Literally backwards, bro.

I can tell that much, but it's rendered in gameplay and shot on command by a character in the game.

. . .Check your math, again buddy.
(1/480 000) of (1 second) is 2.08333333 microseconds. 2.08333333 microseconds is 2083.33333 metres per second. If I'm wrong blame google. But it doesn't look like I am.
When you consider Dante's speed which is only 3 microseconds slower, and he was much younger and had no DT goin for him, it's obvious current Dante is also much faster.

I think Dante's soul and mind is too strong for him to fall for any of Haz's games.

Originally posted by No End N Site
The characters you name are men turned mutants. Blitz's transform into trails of electricity.

Your logic is backwards. Literally backwards, bro.

Largely irrelevant.

Though I'm not actually familiar with Blitzes.

Do you have a scene of him reacting to them, or do we know how he deals with them? Solid evidence of reacting to lightning like Hazama?

I can tell that much, but it's rendered in gameplay and shot on command by a character in the game.

The first part is irrelevant, the second does not detract from the feat considering he easily dodged it three consecutive times.

. . .Check your math, again buddy.
(1/480 000) of (1 second) is 2.08333333 microseconds. 2.08333333 microseconds is 2083.33333 metres per second. If I'm wrong blame google. But it doesn't look like I am.
When you consider Dante's speed which is only 3 microseconds slower, and he was much younger and had no DT goin for him, it's obvious current Dante is also much faster.

You are certainly wrong.

A microsecond is a millionth of a second.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsecond

Also, your equation lacks any distance. Traveling one meter in 1/480,000th of a second, which is conservative, would equate to 480,000 meters per second. Simple distance divided by time. I can eyeball that and solve the equation.

I think Dante's soul and mind is too strong for him to fall for any of Haz's games.

Maybe. Feats of soul and mental resist, and feats of who he resisted?

Hey, No End, I actually misread your post, yeah, you are about right on Terumi's feat being two microseconds.

But a unit of time, like a microsecond, can't be simply said to be a certain speed, to get speed distance must be divided by time.

Doesn't matter, I quit. I like The God of Jerks better than Dante anyway. I'm gonna start back playin on BB Tonight!!!

Good idea. Been a while since I have played Blazblue myself.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Well frankly, it's lower than implied capabilities, and the only concrete destructive feat.

For example, nukes were compared to pebbles when used against the Black Beast.

Two of the Six Heroes were very much capable of driving the Black Beast off with no help (Hakumen and Jubei managed this)

Arent those two the strongest two characters anyhow?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Terumi's best reaction-time feat is Relativistic+ actually.

How will Dante manage this when, while fighting and striking Dante, Terumi is also attacking his soul and mind? Mindrape is his hobby, and he has casually torn the souls out of an entire Librarium (Which has an armed force equivelant to a small nation's).

Frankly, I still don't actually buy Dante's alleged lightning timing with Alastor.

How does he use that in combat? Take it hes done it on someone with resistance so probably dont need to step on that. To answer the question to No End, Dante's best resistance comes from Vergil who was able to break out of Mundas' 10 year long mind/body/soul control by remembering who he is. Lesser feats are resisting a soul draining orb and a blood and soul sucking demon. Latter two making him enter his devil form as a result.

Both statement and clalc point to the lightning. Even without those, is it much of a stretch to thing that the speed boosting Alastor would have to do much to get him at 60k? He was 5k in his youth and his speed would be higher in his current form given how all his other stats increased (strength being the best example, breaking a statue vs Savior's punch), without actually giving an assumed figure we can still rationally say that Alastor would only need to amp his DMC1 speed by 3 or 6x to hit 60k.

Oh, and Blitz is the lightning demon. Shown by his attitude to it, Dante finds no trouble in facing and beating an opponent with lightning speed and reactions.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Which feat?

Originally posted by BloodRain
Does it say how did that? Like brute force, nox/regen nulling or other magic? Read that they spent the year it was dormant creating a way to beat it with magic.

They created Ars Magus and Armagus, a method of combining true magic and science. While being less potent than magic (It should be noted that Terumi seems to have learned magic), it is also much easier to learn for others. Terumi, along with posessing a Nox Nyctores, the most powerful of Ars Armagus, also has his own Azure Grimoire, he invented it, and his is the most powerful version.

So basically he's strong, is what I'm getting at.

No Nox Nyctores is shown to be explicitly above any of the others.

YouTube video

That big Kill Sat is a Nox Nyctores, and was easily deflected by Rachel Alucard, who is not as powerful as Terumi.

Hakumen has shown to be capable of cutting blast doors in half casually, and even slicing through the fabric of time itself to view alternate timelines, Terumi is stronger than him.

Each Nox does something different, though all are powerful. Hakumen's cancels magic, Terumi's allows him to eat and manipulate the minds of others as well as being used as a weapon, etc etc.

Frankly, I have some doubts that Dante can signifigantly hurt Terumi. Characters much weaker than him have survivied being knocked flying through cities and plummeting through city blocks into what is effectively a sewage system (Bang, one of the weakest characters in the game, managed this). Jin Kisaragi survived falling kilometers off an airship while he himself just moments before was instated into a critical care facility. Neither of these guys are shit to Terumi. Then of course there is the fact that Terumi is kept alive by the hatred of others, as well as a Life Link with the Imperator, effectively making him immortal and very difficult to put down, even in terms of destroying his body.

Arent those two the strongest two characters anyhow?

Terumi is also one of the Six Heroes. Beyond that, his feats against other Six Heroes imply he is at least one of the strongest, he personally killed Nine, despite Hakumen's claim that her strength equaled Jubei's (The strongest living thing in the world present-time, according to many, including Hakumen, though when he referred to Jubei as such, Terumi was believed dead/sealed), and beyond that, Terumi also at one point incapacitated Jubei and Hakumen at once, and has also beaten a nearly full-powered Hakumen personally, followed by fighting Rachel without really taxing himself (Rachel is another top-tier in the setting, easily Six Hero level), and only had to flee when Valkenhayn joined the fight, aka another Six Hero.

Just to give you an idea of Terumi's status in the verse. Powerscaling alone implies a lot.

2 microsec RT isnt relativistic, its only 0.16% SoL. And that reaction feat would only be 480m/s if QS was active.

I was incorrect on the realitivistic reaction-time, yes, but when has QS slowed time to a thousandth of what it was before?

How does he use that in combat? Take it hes done it on someone with resistance so probably dont need to step on that.
To answer the question to No End, Dante's best resistance comes from Vergil who was able to break out of Mundas' 10 year long mind/body/soul control by remembering who he is. Lesser feats are resisting a soul draining orb and a blood and soul sucking demon. Latter two making him enter his devil form as a result.

The mental "feat" hurts him, as it clearly implies Vergil CAN be affected mentally, and it took him ten years to break free.

Can you describe the orb and demon to me? I can also show you Terumi's soul sucking feat if you want.

[quotw]Both statement and clalc point to the lightning. Even without those, is it much of a stretch to thing that the speed boosting Alastor would have to do much to get him at 60k? He was 5k in his youth and his speed would be higher in his current form given how all his other stats increased (strength being the best example, breaking a statue vs Savior's punch), without actually giving an assumed figure we can still rationally say that Alastor would only need to amp his DMC1 speed by 3 or 6x to hit 60k.[/quote]

I disagree heavily with the calc for reasons stated before. What statement is that? Only one move IIRC uses "lightning-speed", it is one thing to claim that one specific move allows him to use lightning speed, another entirely to assume that means the sword gives him that in general. Also, this is DMC3 Dante anyway, so no Alastor.

Oh, and Blitz is the lightning demon. Shown by his attitude to it, Dante finds no trouble in facing and beating an opponent with lightning speed and reactions.

Oh boy, you probably should not have posted that. Because what I am seeing is an alleged lightning timer proving far too fast for Dante to hit using his own speed. As in, before Dante's sword can move less than a meter to hit him, Blitz is out of sight. Dante may have beaten Blitz, but based on demonstratable on-screen showings, it was not using his speed.

The lightning timing you posted.

Well, he was shown to react and move while dodging them, so it could be considered both I guess.

It will be Dante.
The troll guy won't be so trolly against Dante's sarcastic persona.
Plus, Dante has many tons of weapons to kick Hazama's ass.

Hazama could defeat the imposter one while the real white haired and red coated it's a different matter.

Lolno

Originally posted by Hanaoka
It will be Dante.
The troll guy won't be so trolly against Dante's sarcastic persona.
Plus, Dante has many tons of weapons to kick Hazama's ass.

Hazama could defeat the imposter one while the real white haired and red coated it's a different matter.

Or his soul and telepathy hax?

Or that he can easily ***** Ragna, a city block+ buster.

chunk

Hakumen has shown to be capable of cutting blast doors in half casually, and even slicing through the fabric of time itself to view alternate timelines, Terumi is stronger than him.

Characters much weaker than him have survivied being knocked flying through cities and plummeting through city blocks into what is effectively a sewage system (Bang, one of the weakest characters in the game, managed this). Jin Kisaragi survived falling kilometers off an airship while he himself just moments before was instated into a critical care facility. Neither of these guys are shit to Terumi.

So what I'm getting from this is that physically he's a lightning timer with city-block+ power and large-building durability? (Not counting the beam redirection as it was her ultimate defense Unit thing, not physical dura.) Putting his abilities to a side for a second, the only threatening thing here is his speed. Dante hasnt faced this speed yet [only after this game] but QS will deal with that. Now, physically speaking, with his speed within reactions or lowered too and having strength and dura below Dante's league, Dante would win.... BUT, I just remembered while typing this paragraph that its DMC3 Dante, not EoS. So not so sure.

when has QS slowed time to a thousandth of what it was before?[/quot]
On the falling rocks. Falling at 10m/s before QS (think a calc gave a tad over 12.. meh, 10) and 1cm/s afterwards. 1/1,000th the speed.

[quote]as it clearly implies Vergil CAN be affected mentally, and it took him ten years to break free.

Can you describe the orb and demon to me? I can also show you Terumi's soul sucking feat if you want.

I disagree heavily with the calc for reasons stated before. What statement is that? Only one move IIRC uses "lightning-speed", it is one thing to claim that one specific move allows him to use lightning speed, another entirely to assume that means the sword gives him that in general. Also, this is DMC3 Dante anyway, so no Alastor.

Oh boy, you probably should not have posted that. Because what I am seeing is an alleged lightning timer proving far too fast for Dante to hit using his own speed. As in, before Dante's sword can move less than a meter to hit him, Blitz is out of sight. Dante may have beaten Blitz, but based on demonstratable on-screen showings, it was not using his speed.

Originally posted by BloodRain
May be going over my head here, but how the 2 heroes manage to hold the Beast? Think it was Hakumen's nulling nox that cancelled the Beasts regen, a pretty vital thing imo.

Hakumen can stop healing factors, yes, but he still needs to be able to hurt it. Same with Jubei.

Is the blast door cutting more or less than casually cutting through a 6ft metal cube? Latter is non-quantifiable.

Effectively yes, cut the whole thing in half.

Unquantifiable but cool. estahuh

Pretty sure those are mid-building level durability feats unless significant damage was caused. Abigail had city-block durability and was destroyed in one hit from a Demon powered Dante.

Does a gaping hole in the city plate count? And nah, mid-building level lol? Demolishing buildings and being sent through a city block (As in, through the block itself) > building.

Also, Taokaka, a much weaker character, survived being sent through a cannon and flying 2km easily. Terumi is much more powerful, and is easily capable of harming her.

So what I'm getting from this is that physically he's a lightning timer with city-block+ power and large-building durability? (Not counting the beam redirection as it was her ultimate defense Unit thing, not physical dura.) Putting his abilities to a side for a second, the only threatening thing here is his speed. Dante hasnt faced this speed yet [only after this game] but QS will deal with that. Now, physically speaking, with his speed within reactions or lowered too and having strength and dura below Dante's league, Dante would win.... BUT, I just remembered while typing this paragraph that its DMC3 Dante, not EoS. So not so sure.

Faster than a lightning timer actually. The OBD seems to believe he is relativistic. Admittedly, I am not sure why. Will look into this.

Mm after Vergil was beat to a pulp Mundus took his mind, but it only took one stimulus for him to break a 10 year control.

Terumi can mentally assault someone during combat, it is actually the power of his Nox Nyctores. He has mindraped Jin, Noel, Tsubaki, and Iron Tager, to name a few that I can think of. Iron Tager is probably the most impressive of those, being a sane, stable, intelligent cyborg. Terumi mindraped him pretty easily.

Nothing greater than 'drains your soul', and this; 1 2 3 4.

Cool. Can you explain the manga feat?

YouTube video

About twenty seconds in, we see Terumi stealing the souls of the NOL branch (Easily hundreds of people, at least) and putting them in the Cauldron. Now, before you go ahead and blame it on the Cauldron, I don't believe the Cauldron itself did this, notice Terumi's hair is up, that only happens when exerting his full power.

Your two reasons were; "I'm not seeing much of a difference at all." ~When we see the glass fell from the 3m+ ceiling to just off the ground in under a second, to barely moving when he's swinging.
"Also, you did notice that some glass, during Dante swinging Alastor, actually made it to the floor, right?" ~When no glass til post-swing hits the floor.
"Plus, like I said, every time Dante swings his sword, the glass moves." ~"The only shards that are moving are the smaller parts, explained by Dante swinging around. Its unlikely that he would miss every shard around him."
So whats left?

You missed "The electricity within the video is noticeably moving much faster, both the cloud to ground strike, as well as the jolts that appear and disappear through his body.

And no, wrongo.

YouTube video

At the LEAST as early as 1:22, bottom right, we see some glass that has made it to the floor. Then again at 1:26, we quite clearly see glass under Dante's boot.

And yes, EVERY slash of Dante's is accompanied by a gust of wind and the glass makes a noticeable shift in mid-air with it.

Seeing as Blitz has lightning speed reactions, Dante would have to match it to beat him.

Does Blitz actually have lightning reactions? I mean, we see Blitz turn into lightning and bolt around, but that is little different from teleportation.

Beyond that, no, wrong. Thor does not have the reaction-time of the Silver Surfer, but can and has beaten him. The Hulk has beaten and fought many faster opponents.

Beyond even that, we plainly see that Dante is incapable of matching Blitz's burst of lightning speed.

Hakumen can stop healing factors, yes, but he still needs to be able to hurt it. Same with Jubei.

Effectively yes, cut the whole thing in half.

Does a gaping hole in the city plate count? And nah, mid-building level lol? Demolishing buildings and being sent through a city block (As in, through the block itself) > building.

Also, Taokaka, a much weaker character, survived being sent through a cannon and flying 2km easily. Terumi is much more powerful, and is easily capable of harming her.

OBD says she's multi-block. It also says that she's arguably the most durable character in-verse. Do we ever see him physically harm her?

Expanding on Abigail; Dante's base strength is, Joules wise, at multi-city block, his strength is more or less at Taokaka's dura level. His sword backed with this strength couldn't damage Abigail, meaning this dura is a chunk above her's. Powered Dante being able to one-shot Abigail makes his strength considerably above Taokaka's dura.

So even if Hazama's durability is comparable to Taokaka's, its still going to be below Dante's output. He would have to be far more resilient than Tao to not get one shotted.

Faster than a lightning timer actually. The OBD seems to believe he is relativistic. Admittedly, I am not sure why. Will look into this.

Just saying now before the what I guess is a lightning argument; if Dante's speed or reactions are lightning levels and/or one of his time powers gets a hold of him, Hazama's only physical advantage will be leveled off leaving only his hax as his chance of victory.

Terumi can mentally assault someone during combat, it is actually the power of his Nox Nyctores. He has mindraped Jin, Noel, Tsubaki, and Iron Tager, to name a few that I can think of. Iron Tager is probably the most impressive of those, being a sane, stable, intelligent cyborg. Terumi mindraped him pretty easily.

Dante's feat may not be the best, but it still counts as some level of resistance. If the characters like Tager don't have any resistance then it can be argued that Dante has a chance to fight against this mind power.

Cool. Can you explain the manga feat?

About twenty seconds in, we see Terumi stealing the souls of the NOL branch (Easily hundreds of people, at least) and putting them in the Cauldron. Now, before you go ahead and blame it on the Cauldron, I don't believe the Cauldron itself did this, notice Terumi's hair is up, that only happens when exerting his full power.

Doesnt his hair spike up in any hatless appearance? Probably was him anyhow. NOL branch guys have any soul resistance?

You missed "The electricity within the video is noticeably moving much faster, both the cloud to ground strike, as well as the jolts that appear and disappear through his body.

At the LEAST as early as 1:22, bottom right, we see some glass that has made it to the floor. Then again at 1:26, we quite clearly see glass under Dante's boot.

And yes, EVERY slash of Dante's is accompanied by a gust of wind and the glass makes a noticeable shift in mid-air with it.

Urm yeah, swear I covered that already;
""I'm not seeing much of a difference at all."
Before swinging; glass falls from the 3m high ceiling to a foot off the the ground.
While swinging; Barely moving."

Theres no slow motion when the jolts pass through his body, and the lightning appears before the main slow-mo swings. For numbers sake, when the lightning came down the glass appeared to cover 3m in 7seconds, 0.43m/s. Meaning that the scene was moving at 1/23.333 of normal speed. When he starts swinging it cranks up.... down to 1/12,000 of normal speed

Basically while the lightning part may appear faster, its scene was actually playing 514x faster than the slashing scene. If the slash scene happened in the same dilation as the lightning one, those 14 second swings would be over in 0.027 seconds.

At the LEAST as early as 1:22, bottom right, we see some glass that has made it to the floor. Then again at 1:26, we quite clearly see glass under Dante's boot.

And yes, EVERY slash of Dante's is accompanied by a gust of wind and the glass makes a noticeable shift in mid-air with it.

Don't see any gusts of wind, unless you mean the 'swoosh' sounds. Nor do I see any non-edited-out-later pieces moving.

Does Blitz actually have lightning reactions? I mean, we see Blitz turn into lightning and bolt around, but that is little different from teleportation.

Beyond that, no, wrong. Thor does not have the reaction-time of the Silver Surfer, but can and has beaten him. The Hulk has beaten and fought many faster opponents.

Beyond even that, we plainly see that Dante is incapable of matching Blitz's burst of lightning speed.

Telepor...wha? Teleportation cuts out the travel, how is that like Blitz moving around?

Doesnt Thor have FTL reactions? And isnt SS slower in h2h than surfing around? Most of those Marvel/DC things are circumstantial and plot changeable. Ive seen Spider-Man dance around Hulk with little effort, next thing he's catching some FTL guy like its a casual sport. Anyhow, in my whole stay here whenever character A beats character B, A's reactions have always been agreed to match B's speed. Like Knuckles from Sonic, Kratos from Hermes or Link from DLink.

Yeah, one instance, mid-swing, and not to mention that when Blitz hops away Dante wasnt even looking at it [check the scene, he's looking straight down]. Besides, I never said that base Dante had lightning movement speed, just the reactions to combat it.

Its only with Alastor/Sparda or in his DT that Dante becomes lightning/+.. or with time ****ery.