Originally posted by Nephthys
A Force Wave that kills 12 Jedi-level opponents, atomising half of them, sounds out of Malgus' league imo.
Is the text clear on whether those assassins were individually able to wound and kill Jedi, or in fact did so in large numbers, as it would appear that they operate in? I'm not sure you can say that in whatever capacity they posed a threat to Jedi would have presented them with any kind of defence against telekinesis, either. Without context the feat isn't particularly impressive, in my opinion.
Originally posted by Brako Cott
Is the text clear on whether those assassins were individually able to wound and kill Jedi, or in fact did so in large numbers, as it would appear that they operate in? I'm not sure you can say that in whatever capacity they posed a threat to Jedi would have presented them with any kind of defence against telekinesis, either. Without context the feat isn't particularly impressive, in my opinion.
Judge for yourself. Hopefully my source will not mind me re-posting these.
The sentence in question specifically mentions them using tactics to deal with Force Powers though, so in my opinion it stands.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Judge for yourself. Hopefully my source will not mind me re-posting these.
It's not entirely clear, and as ington was saying we don't know who the Jedi they killed were, nor do we know the circumstances they were killed in. I'm sure they were impressive but I don't know if we can universally label these assassins Jedi level, particularly with respect to the feat you posted.
The sentence in question specifically mentions them using tactics to deal with Force Powers though, so in my opinion it stands.
In an evasive manner, not head on. In that regard the feat would be of note for actually hitting all six, not the damage it caused them.
Originally posted by Brako Cott
It's not entirely clear, and as ington was saying we don't know who the Jedi they killed were, nor do we know the circumstances they were killed in. I'm sure they were impressive but I don't know if we can universally label these assassins Jedi level, particularly with respect to the feat you posted.
Well I do.
Originally posted by Brako Cott
In an evasive manner, not head on. In that regard the feat would be of note for actually hitting all six, not the damage it caused them.
So 'all but atomising them' isn't impressive to you? Why not? When has Malgus shown he can deal with that kind of offensive power?
It was never a question of durability or something. Though in that regard they are wearing armor.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Well I do.
welluarewong
So 'all but atomising them' isn't impressive to you? Why not? When has Malgus shown he can deal with that kind of offensive power?
I was saying that with respect to their preventative measures against force attacks, the feat is only of note for hitting them.
That being said, "all but atomized" is by any reasonable interpretation clearly an exaggeration, given that the exact, precise distinction between being literally atomized and being broken apart to a single greater unit of scale is such a tedious, inconsequential, meaningless distinction that the "all but" loses almost all of its meaning, unless it refers to being severely broken apart, but by many orders of magnitude greater than being literally atomised. At best you can argue that their bodies were severely broken apart but you can in no way establish that the scale was anything like what you imply, both with your earlier omission and now with how impressed you are, and any reasonable interpretation disagrees.
It was never a question of durability or something. Though in that regard they are wearing armor.
Well it was implied with your label of them as jedi-level as you described the destruction the force wave caused.
Originally posted by Brako Cott
welluarewong
nour
Originally posted by Brako Cott
I was saying that with respect to their preventative measures against force attacks, the feat is only of note for hitting them.That being said, "all but atomized" is by any reasonable interpretation clearly an exaggeration, given that the exact, precise distinction between being literally atomized and being broken apart to a single greater unit of scale is such a tedious, inconsequential, meaningless distinction that the "all but" loses almost all of its meaning, unless it refers to being severely broken apart, but by many orders of magnitude greater than being literally atomised. At best you can argue that their bodies were severely broken apart but you can in no way establish that the scale was anything like what you imply, both with your earlier omission and now with how impressed you are, and any reasonable interpretation disagrees.
Not an unimpressive feat given that these people can wound and kill Jedi.
So you want to throw it out because you don't like the phrase 'all but'? Yeah sorry but I'm not buying that. The phrase 'all but' simply means 'very nearly' or 'everything up to that level'. While the blast didn't go so far as to reduce them to mere atoms it obviously completely annihilated them, reducing them to a fine spray or somesuch. I'm afraid that it is very much adequate to establish the scale I was implying. To put it simply almost atomising beings with a Force Wave is still a feat of strength way beyond that of almost any other Force user, comperable to or even exceeding that of Banes telekinetic ability.
Originally posted by Brako Cott
Well it was implied with your label of them as jedi-level as you described the destruction the force wave caused.
Jedi do not have that impressive durability, so it would be pretty nonsensical to expect being able to vaporise someone of similar capapbilities to be impressive as well.
First, kindly leave Darth Bane out of this, please. If you want to discuss Alistair Overeem we will discuss Alistair Overeem but I will not be conversing with you with regards to Darth Bane.
Not only are there cases of Jedi directly enhancing their durability but there are also direct defencive measures they cna take against such attacks, such as the very common force shield, or use of their own telekinesis.
The literal interpretation of 'all but' is, as I've already explained, a very bad one, and the better interpretation of something resembling that scale is subject to relative interpretation - "nearly" is a relative term, and you aren't in a position to decide for everyone the exact scale, whether it entails reducing them to a fine spray or something even more precise.
You haven't established the exact manner with which they could wound or kill jedi, nor have you established how those same skills apply in this scenario. If they have no means of directly protecting themselves against such an attack, and lack things such as Force enhanced speed that jedi possess (Force Waves are typically very large as well as quick; with just ~human level physical capabilities and no direct defence against the attack their chances of defending against such an attack are very slim, regardless of whatever skills may have enabled them to be such a threat to unnamed Jedi), labelling them Jedi-level with respect to their vulnerability against such an attack is kind of misleading, regardless of their good evasive tactics and relentless offence.
No, Banes ability to telekinetically disintergrate people is a great precident and measuring stick. Also I have no idea who Alistair Overeem is. awesus
The only time I can think of is in TFU when Galen is smacking Kota around in ways humans probably shouldn't be able to just get up from. And yes, I know that they can block stuff with the Force. Why would you even think I was comparing a non-force user against a jedi in that way?
And I reject your explanation, which amounted to 'its exaggeration and dumb'. How am I unable to decide on scale but you are allowed to decide that the distinction between being atomised and not is 'inconsequential' and therefore the quote instantly loses all meaning? Please. Blax is right, the attempts to lowball Plagueis here are very amusing.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
"All but atomized", wouldn't that basically mean: if reduced any further they would have been atoms? If so, then they would have been reduced to tinier particles than ash, and that would still be a telekinetic feat far beyond anything shown from Malgus.
The point is that if the intended message is an entirely literal one: that their bodies were seperated into pieces a single order of magnitude greater than atoms, the distinction between "atomized" and "all but atomized" is so tediously precise, practically meaningless and random that it's an incredibly unrealistic interpretation of the intended message. A less literal intepretation is clearly more reasonable, but opens itself up to relativity; clearly the intended message is that they were seperated into very small pieces but nobody is in a position to define the exact scale of those very small pieces. Essentially, the feat, as a whole, is largely vague in too many ways that we can establish it as a notably impressive feat.
