Originally posted by Mindset
What exactly do you want to prove with that scan?
Doctor Doom used a "SPIRIT-REVERSAL-SPELL" and confronted the Sentry with the Void, something he doesn't like all too much. Doom had few seconds of free time, maybe something he could use to run away, but since it's ... DOOM. DOES. NOT. RUN.
... he would be there, after Sentry would snap and that would happen, what Iron Man said.
"Doom, stop it! He'll kill you! Do you hear me?".
Originally posted by EnzeruHe had a few seconds of free time because IM convinced Doom to stop attacking Sentry. IM didn't even know what Doom was doing to Sentry, it's hilarious to think that IM knew Sentry would kill Doom because of that attack. What Doom said, "It doesn't seem that he is able to do anything.", and he was right.
What exactly do you want to prove with that scan?Doctor Doom used a "SPIRIT-REVERSAL-SPELL" and confronted the Sentry with the Void, something he doesn't like all too much. Doom had few seconds of free time, maybe something he could use to run away, but since it's ... DOOM. DOES. NOT. RUN.
... he would be there, after Sentry would snap and that would happen, what Iron Man said."Doom, stop it! He'll kill you! Do you hear me?".
He casually used a spell that incapacitated Sentry.
In your post you said he was never able to defend himself from Sentry.
What I proved is that you're wrong.
I can't think of a time where Sentry attacked Doom while Doom was either aware of his presence or wasn't busy fighting someone else.
Originally posted by Mindset
He had a few seconds of free time because IM convinced Doom to stop attacking Sentry. IM didn't even know what Doom was doing to Sentry, it's hilarious to think that IM knew Sentry would kill Doom because of that attack. What Doom said, "It doesn't seem that he is able to do anything.", and he was right.
Sigh ... here we go again ...
Iron Man saw that Sentry was struggeling with something Doom was doing to him and he told Doom to stop, otherwise Sentry would have killed Doom.
Sentry is the one with the power level which can't be measured by Iron Man, Reed Richards, S.H.I.E.L.D. and so on. Not Doctor Doom.
I never said that Iron Man knew what Doctor Doom was doing there. I simply said that Doctor Doom was using a spirit-reversal-spell, which was stated on the next page. Either you don't know about that, since you simply took that scan out of nothing to prove a false point, or you know it exactly and wanted to skip it out.
Fact is: that spell did something to the unstable Sentry, who then started struggeling and fading away, the reason why Iron Man said that Sentry would kill Doom and not even know that he did it, because usually then the Void takes over and if Sentry sees the Void and is scared of him, the Void has an easy game.
Originally posted by Mindset
He casually used a spell that incapacitated Sentry.
No, he had luck that he was using basically the only spell in his book which was capable of holding the Sentry off for few seconds.
Sentry already faced magic, especially black magic in the past and he did just fine. Doctor Strange, who is a better sorcerer than Doom also said that Sentry was always too powerful for black magic, mind cancer magic.
As I mentioned it above, Sentry was unstable when Doom attacked him with his spell, the reason why it affected Sentry in the first place. Let Doom face in a moment where Sentry is clear minded and Doom is history, like already shown in the past.
Originally posted by Mindset
In your post you said he was never able to defend himself from Sentry.
He was not. He was never able to. Do you call it defending if you get rid of the opponent for few seconds without actually doing much to him and he then kills you afterwards? I don't call that self-defense, I call that not using the opportunity to run away.
Additionally to that I'm not even sure if he could really escape the Sentry, since the Sentry can teleport and track people by their "aura". He did it to Noah-Varr, but I guess because of Noah-Varr's tech he wasn't able to detect him later on, so chances are there that Doom could also avoid a further detection.
Originally posted by Mindset
What I proved is that you're wrong.
No, you didn't prove anything, but listen. I think that Doctor Doom is an awesome character. In fact he is probably like my only, only, only favorite villain in the comic books.
I like bad guys, but most of them are not appealing, yet Doctor Doom is miles above them and I'm the first one who would argue for Doom in his battles, yet when it comes to the Sentry, Doom's track is far than worse.
Originally posted by Mindset
I can't think of a time where Sentry attacked Doom while Doom was either aware of his presence or wasn't busy fighting someone else.
That's not the point.
Doom is not a uber-duber-superhuman, who can do much against it. He does not have the movement speed, nor the reaction speed to react to the Sentry, someone who kills Morgana by simply flying behind her and ripping her head off, before she can react.
Doom is a great sorcerer and he is a genius. He builds tech and he awaits from that tech to protect him, but that tech which gave him few wins over the Silver Surfer, took a blast from the Infinity Gauntlet, protected him from being thrown away by Galactus was not enough to keep the Sentry away from him ... TWICE.
Sentry broke through Doom's shields which were at 100% of their capacity, ripped apart Doom's armor and left everyone around him impressed, even Doom. He impressed Doctor Doom.
The second time he also walked yet again through Doom's shields, after Ms. Marvel told him too, since the entire Avengers were not able to help Iron Man out, who was overwhelmed by Doom who was wielding the Crimson Bands Of Cyttorak and in the end Sentry took him down once again.
In a different encounter the Void one-shotted a Doombot (and Doombots also have their awesome showings), while Sentry later on also ripped apart the Doombot and destroyed all of the flying weapon thingys from Doom.
And then we also have your scan, where Doom gets rid of the Sentry for a moment and then Iron Man yells at him and tells him to stop, if he wants to live.
In What If? 200, written by Stan Lee, the creator of Doctor Doom we see Void one-shotting Doom, in Siege we see Loki, yet another powerful sorcerer saying that he didn't know Void was that all-powerful.
No matter who was writing the stories, they all saw Sentry being superior to Doom, so yeah ... Doom does not really have a chance to take Sentry down in a random encounter. If he has prep-time he would find a way. A prep-genius always finds a way.
Doom at his peak would also take down the Sentry, since then it would be basically Sentry VS Beyonder and Sentry would lose most of his fights against reality warpers, if you ask me, since he is limited to powerful, raw molecule manipulation, while reality warping is simply a higher scale.
Originally posted by quanchi112
@ EnzeruYou stated he failed to defend himself in every encounter. He proved you wrong. You then tried to change the issue. You're wrong. The scan proved it.
I fail to realize where the defending in that one is?
He is distracting Sentry for a moment while messing with his mind and risking to die afterwards.
That's not defending, that's playing with fire.
Originally posted by EnzeruThat's called defending yourself. You said he didn't he clearly did. Iron Man defeated him one on one. The guy's mind is easy to unravel. Doom's mind isn't. Just saying you're wrong but at least you are consistent.
I fail to realize where the defending in that one is?
He is distracting Sentry for a moment while messing with his mind and risking to die afterwards.
That's not defending, that's playing with fire.
Originally posted by quanchi112
That's called defending yourself. You said he didn't he clearly did. Iron Man defeated him one on one. The guy's mind is easy to unravel. Doom's mind isn't. Just saying you're wrong but at least you are consistent.
1. Once again, that doesn't make any sense. Doctor Doom was defending himself, when he faced the Silver Surfer and took on Silver Surfer's attacks thanks to his force fields, so that Silver Surfer stated they would be equals later on.
Doctor Doom was not defending himself, when Sentry simply bullrushed through the shields and took Doom down by ripping apart Doom's armor, something that took a IG blast from your beloved Thanos.
Doctor Doom DISTRACTING Sentry with a SPIRIT-REVERSAL-SPELL is not the same thing as defending himself and having a fighting chance.
Doctor Strange was also able to distract the Sentry by showing him an illusion of the Void and then flee. In their earlier encounter Sentry resisted Strange's magic and one-punched him.
2. Iron Man never defeated him one on one, that's just you trying to use a plot device to downgrade the Sentry. Iron Man could not flee from Sentry, because he is too slow, he could not harm the Sentry, because he is too weak, he didn't have a fighting chance.
Then he had an idea and hacked CLOC, a living programm coded by Reed Richards. He also said that he knew Reed's firewalls would have been bad and then he overloaded the Sentry with tons and tons of all kind of various catastrophes which were taking place all over the world. Sentry wanted to help, but he couldn't make the decision. Who decides who can live and who has to die? He is not God. He has godlike powers, but even he has limits.
So if at all, you can give this instance as a feat for Tony in terms of having better hacking skills than Reed Richards, wohoooo what a biggie!
3. When it comes to the Sentry I'm never wrong. I know the character better than you know Thanos, but at least I'm not going to argue for Sentry when it comes to a fight with a fully fed Galactus, while you would instantly keep posting all kinds of stupid theories for Thanos.
Originally posted by Enzeru1. Doom defended himself when he put his hands on Doom. You said he never defended himself. Then you tried to change the subject into he can't beat the Sentry which he never stated. He corrected your lie that Doom has never defended himself.
1. Once again, that doesn't make any sense. Doctor Doom was defending himself, when he faced the Silver Surfer and took on Silver Surfer's attacks thanks to his force fields, so that Silver Surfer stated they would be equals later on.Doctor Doom was not defending himself, when Sentry simply bullrushed through the shields and took Doom down by ripping apart Doom's armor, something that took a IG blast from your beloved Thanos.
Doctor Doom DISTRACTING Sentry with a SPIRIT-REVERSAL-SPELL is not the same thing as defending himself and having a fighting chance.Doctor Strange was also able to distract the Sentry by showing him an illusion of the Void and then flee. In their earlier encounter Sentry resisted Strange's magic and one-punched him.
2. Iron Man never defeated him one on one, that's just you trying to use a plot device to downgrade the Sentry. Iron Man could not flee from Sentry, because he is too slow, he could not harm the Sentry, because he is too weak, he didn't have a fighting chance.
Then he had an idea and hacked CLOC, a living programm coded by Reed Richards. He also said that he knew Reed's firewalls would have been bad and then he overloaded the Sentry with tons and tons of all kind of various catastrophes which were taking place all over the world. Sentry wanted to help, but he couldn't make the decision. Who decides who can live and who has to die? He is not God. He has godlike powers, but even he has limits.
So if at all, you can give this instance as a feat for Tony in terms of having better hacking skills than Reed Richards, wohoooo what a biggie!
3. When it comes to the Sentry I'm never wrong. I know the character better than you know Thanos, but at least I'm not going to argue for Sentry when it comes to a fight with a fully fed Galactus, while you would instantly keep posting all kinds of stupid theories for Thanos.
The rest is meaningless drivel which has nothing to do with his claim. These long winded rants show your inability to have a level headed discussion and to simply understand what it is people are saying.
2.Iron Man defeated him. Iron Man's armor can be used as a plot device just as the Sentry's powers can be used as a plot device. The point is Sentry's character has always been consistently shown to be afraid of his own powers and the repercussions as his actions because he's nuts and he knows it.
Iron Man is clearly not in the same league power wise but can still last long enough against the Sentry to capitalize on his own guilt and paranoia to render him helpless. People have talked to the Sentry as a child at times because he's that nuts.
3.You avoid the issue at all costs when it comes to the sentry. Mindset called your bluff with a scan showing you're wrong. You were wrong about pretty much every single thing I can recall and just rant about things that don't even pertain to the discussion at hand.
@ Quanchi
I'm not going to go with you through the entire shit once again and because of that I didn't pay all too much attention at your last post. I already realized that everything you come across challanges you mentally pretty hard.
I already made my position clear in terms of that scan and everything is perfectly understandable, so that I'm sure that the normal people on this board won't have any problems with actually understanding and accepting that.
I'm aware that these rules don't apply for you, so you can believe what you want, which was false in the past, is false now and will be false in the future.
Originally posted by EnzeruYou stated Doom never defended himself against the Sentry. The scan proved you lied. End of story.
@ QuanchiI'm not going to go with you through the entire shit once again and because of that I didn't pay all too much attention at your last post. I already realized that everything you come across challanges you mentally pretty hard.
I already made my position clear in terms of that scan and everything is perfectly understandable, so that I'm sure that the normal people on this board won't have any problems with actually understanding and accepting that.
I'm aware that these rules don't apply for you, so you can believe what you want, which was false in the past, is false now and will be false in the future.
Originally posted by Mindset
Lol at trying to argue with a scan of Doom clearly defending himself.
Sentry was writhing in pain from one casual spell from Doom.
Once again, where the hell do you see Doctor Doom defending himself in that one? He was lucky that he used the needed spell to distract the Sentry for a moment. It's all about the "spirit-reversal-spell", which affects the Sentry hugely because it invades his mind and even Doctor Doom himself said it: "HE REACTED TO THAT SPIRIT REVERSAL SPELL TOO STRONGLY".
Read the full "fight" and actually think about it for a moment. Sentry was never threatened in that one, while Doom was. His life was threatened:
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/755/mightyavengers10009.jpg
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/9116/mightyavengers10010.jpg
http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/319/mightyavengers10011012.jpg
Then you have other instances, where Sentry overpowers Doom easily:
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/2173/mightyavengers011thebas.jpg
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/2173/mightyavengers011thebas.jpg
http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/9500/mightyavengers9020.jpg
http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/8085/mightyavengers9021.jpg
In the third instance it was a Doombot and that Doombot got one-shotted by the Void and additionally ripped apart by the Sentry.
When someone attacks you, and you stop them when your own attack, that is defending yourself.
I assume you are not a complete idiot, so why are you trying to post like one?
I have read the full fight, the full fight shows a pissed off Sentry attacking Doom then being mystically ***** slapped in return.
Those other instances are Sentry facing Doom while Doom is unprepared and unaware; they are also completely irrelevant to your wrong statement of Doom never being able to defend himself against Sentry.
Originally posted by Enzerudid sentry attack him? Yes. did doom get hit or successfuly defend himself? I think its pretty obvious. Just because he probably would have got whooped after doesnt change the fact that he defended himself against sentry's attack.
I fail to realize where the defending in that one is?
He is distracting Sentry for a moment while messing with his mind and risking to die afterwards.
That's not defending, that's playing with fire.
Exactly. The point being debated wasn't whether the defence took the Sentry out, it was whether Doom defended himself at all.
Example:
I go and attack a small child, for reasons known only to me. The kid flails at me with its tiny fists. Is he defending himself? Yes. Is it working? No. I still take his candy.
And so it is here. Did Doom defend himself? Yes. Did it work? Well, it stopped the Sentry's initial attack, and he's in pain, so I would say yes. If Iron Man hadn't stopped Doom, then yes, it could be argued that it would have turned into a Pyrrhic victory for Doom, as he gets his face smashed in by a pissed-off Sentry - but for the purposes of 'fending' off the initial attack (or 'defending' as its known in certain circles) it worked.
Originally posted by Mindset
When someone attacks you, and you stop them when your own attack, that is defending yourself.I assume you are not a complete idiot, so why are you trying to post like one?
I have read the full fight, the full fight shows a pissed off Sentry attacking Doom then being mystically ***** slapped in return.
Those other instances are Sentry facing Doom while Doom is unprepared and unaware; they are also completely irrelevant to your wrong statement of Doom never being able to defend himself against Sentry.
1. My statement still applies. If I give a stronger guy a solar plexus and take him out for few seconds, it doesn't mean that I actually defended myself. I would personally say that I made it even worse, since I pissed him off and after he recovers, he is going to beat the crap out of me.
2. He is pissed off, but he has no further intentions. If he wanted to, he could have ripped Doom's head off, just the way he did it to Morgana, while she wasn't even able to react. And I don't see Doom's armor protecting Doom all too much.
3. Other instances show Sentry slowly walking towards Doom, where Doom sees his force fields failing him, then he gets grabbed by Sentry and his armor gets torn apart. In the other instance Sentry flies towards thim, breaks the force fields once again, Doom tells him to: "Be gone!", looks at him, turns around at him, wields the Crimson Bands Of Cyttorak and he stills fails to slow the Sentry down, so yeah ... in both instances you see Doom getting overwhelmed without having any real chance to defend himself.
And now you really, really, really want to believe that he defends himself with a casual spell? As I already said it multiple times. It's all about the spirit-reversal and even Doom says that Sentry is reacting way too strongly to that one.
You know what? Have your belief :-X Doom is indeed defending himself, but it doesn't change the fact, that he is freakin' chanceless.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85Exactly. Enzeru is dead wrong and knows it. This changing the subject may have worked else where but not on kmc.
Exactly. The point being debated wasn't whether the defence took the Sentry out, it was whether Doom defended himself at all.Example:
I go and attack a small child, for reasons known only to me. The kid flails at me with its tiny fists. Is he defending himself? Yes. Is it working? No. I still take his candy.
And so it is here. Did Doom defend himself? Yes. Did it work? Well, it stopped the Sentry's initial attack, and he's in pain, so I would say yes. If Iron Man hadn't stopped Doom, then yes, it could be argued that it would have turned into a Pyrrhic victory for Doom, as he gets his face smashed in by a pissed-off Sentry - but for the purposes of 'fending' off the initial attack (or 'defending' as its known in certain circles) it worked.
