World War Hulk vs Xmen (All)

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Haha back when I first joined, there was a similar thread termed WWH vs X-Men rematch. Went on for 30 pages, due to theHulk and carver, but now they're nowhere. Does this mean they accept that tge Hulk cannot simply punch in every fight and auto win?

correction

i made the thread because hulk did stop the xmen and others

i never said hulk punches and gets a win that's as bad as supes speed blitzes for the win and i said last week that's a poor attempt at a win that's not fair

i am saying hulk is powerful and ppl should realize that

Originally posted by psycho gundam
there is nothing special about the dark dimension other than it lacking innocents, something hulk's apparent code of ethics bans him from outright snuffing out.

answered down

and again all this because others don't like how powerful hulk is

Originally posted by guy222
correction

We'll see.

i made the thread because hulk did stop the xmen and others

i never said hulk punches and gets a win that's as bad as supes speed blitzes for the win and i said last week that's a poor attempt at a win that's not fair

But what else does he have? His kicks? You can't give him wishes as part of his standard repertoire....

i am saying hulk is powerful and ppl should realize that [/B]

He IS powerful. Very powerful - I think we all agree on that. In terms of raw physical strength, he is way up there, in fact, he may even be at the top - but I don't want to argue that now. But he is limited, and limited to physical attacks. Animal Man could defeat him, for example. Of course, not in a strength contest, but by bringing other abilities into play - like you yourself say, the Hulk cannot just punch and expect an auto-win.

Can we stop using the word "powerful"?

Just call him "physically strong" cause that's all he is. The word 'powerful' used amongst superheroes implies much more, and is misleading when applied to Hulk as we saw a few posts ago.

Silver Surfer is powerful. Green Lantern is powerful. Magneto is powerful. Hulk is not powerful.

Or if you do insist on describing him as such please go on to state how he is "powerful", i.e he is physically strong and nothing else.

Originally posted by Placidity
Can we stop using the word "powerful"?

Just call him "physically strong" cause that's all he is. The word 'powerful' used amongst superheroes implies much more, and is misleading when applied to Hulk as we saw a few posts ago.

Silver Surfer is powerful. Green Lantern is powerful. Magneto is powerful. Hulk is not powerful.

Or if you do insist on describing him as such please go on to state how he is "powerful", i.e he is physically strong and nothing else.

Agreed.

you're both quite wrong.

Power is just an abstract concept and strength etc are the concrete manifestations of it. Thus it is quite sensible to say that Hulk is very powerful.

Anyway, Hulk's "physically strong" powers don't limit themselves to affecting purely physical challengers nor do they only defend against "purely physical" attacks.

Even as you try and limit him to what you conceive of as basically a brick, you both try and low-ball a very high-end energy attack feat, in which a dimension is destroyed (multiple times). Pretty obvious that you've got issues with on-panel and historical depiction (and conceptualisation) of Hulk.

Originally posted by janus77

Power is just an abstract concept and strength etc are the concrete manifestations of it. Thus it is quite sensible to say that Hulk is very powerful.

While this isn't incorrect, the problem I have has more to do with when people just say "he is just that powerful" against arguments made from others (as seen earlier).

For example, someone might say Silver Surfer can beat Shadowcat, he is just that powerful. That statement makes perfect sense to most people.

However, when someone says Hulk can beat Shadowcat or he can destroy the universe, he is just that powerful, the reasoning suddenly becomes dubious.

You see using the line "just that powerful" is a way of avoiding the issue altogether. It is obvious how SS can beat Shadowcat or destroy a planet. However, what Hulk fanboys are attempting to do is to pretend that it would be equally as obvious how Hulk would beat Shadowcat or destroy a planet - "he is simply that powerful", and act as if that in itself is sufficient explanation.

Originally posted by Placidity

You see using the line "just that powerful" is a way of avoiding the issue altogether. It is obvious how SS can beat Shadowcat or destroy a planet. However, what Hulk fanboys are attempting to do is to pretend that it would be equally as obvious how Hulk would beat Shadowcat or destroy a planet - "he is simply that powerful", and act as if that in itself is sufficient explanation.

With Surfer you are assuming some sort of matter manip to over come Shadowcat's phasing are you not? you are assuming that he will have sufficient 'power' to overcome her attempts at such attacks whilst his blasting and matter manipulation powers are far too much for her defences (this all presumes you are not simply suggesting Surfer speedblitz attacks her, something else he is well capable of).

Hulk has a history of high-end matter manipulation resistance, he has a history of blowing apart opponents with ThunderClaps, which have done everything from knocking out high heralds to demolision the Dark Dimension (this, as Savage Hulk, not the more recent examples talked about here)... That would be an obvious demonstration of how he is indeed "that powerful".

On top of all that, we have on panel evidence of Hulk casually shrugging off her attempts to phase him into the ground, it has no physical effect on him, he merely 'breaks free' (he has been shown to be as physically strong and resistant on the molecular level as on the macro level).

Further he does have the power to destroy worlds with ease, as we have seen him do when he cuts loose a little. And on top of that, he is demonstrated as being "functionally immortal" by restoring himself in a weaker incarnation, from mere gamma radiation.

So yes, for the example you put forward, an argument that "Hulk is just that powerful" is as perfectly valid for Hulk as it is for Surfer.

Now if it were Hulk versus UniLord or something, then there would be a case to debate the extent of his powers of recovery and the efficacy of his destructive powers but that's not what you're quibbling about so ...

Originally posted by janus77
you're both quite wrong.

More than likely. Well, me, in any case. But I'll try and explain my reasoning.

Power is just an abstract concept and strength etc are the concrete manifestations of it. Thus it is quite sensible to say that Hulk is very powerful.

If you read our posts, we DID say that saying the Hulk is powerful isn't wrong per se - I agreed that he is. But there are caveats to his power, in that it is pretty much physical only. IMHO.

Anyway, Hulk's "physically strong" powers don't limit themselves to affecting purely physical challengers nor do they only defend against "purely physical" attacks.

Even as you try and limit him to what you conceive of as basically a brick, you both try and low-ball a very high-end energy attack feat, in which a dimension is destroyed (multiple times). Pretty obvious that you've got issues with on-panel and historical depiction (and conceptualisation) of Hulk. [/B]

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
We'll see.

I thought it was Colossus-Big C who made that one, and cdtm who made this one?

But what else does he have? His kicks? You can't give him wishes as part of his standard repertoire....

He IS powerful. Very powerful - I think we all agree on that. In terms of raw physical strength, he is way up there, in fact, he may even be at the top - but I don't want to argue that now. But he is limited, and limited to physical attacks. Animal Man could defeat him, for example. Of course, not in a strength contest, but by bringing other abilities into play - like you yourself say, the Hulk cannot just punch and expect an auto-win.

and good morning

everyone loses supes hulk rider living tribunal thanos squirrel girl etc

that's a moot point i am saying like others in the thread give the cat his due pak wrote it its canon so none of us should b upset by what he accomplished its a reason hulk has been around for years

and no one can say he loses in the dd if he simply wishes em away he can't die his strength is infinite

i don't read animal man 😛

my comparsion bout supes and speed i addressed that last week and its true ppl need to stop saying supes win because he speed blitzes all the time he doesn't do that in the comic i know kmc's rules i have been here for many years i try cases in real life i know how to buck the system 😛

as for hulk i don't give hulk the win because he punches and stomps he's a tremendous foe to anyone i give ghost rider the nod over him animal man prolly does win he's lost to snakes addressed before all character have lost at one point

carver's my pal so naturally can't let anyone pick on em 😛

for the thread hulk wins hulk vs all powerful mutants anyone can agree to disagree

i am goin to help the other threads which get lost exactly like this

I still don't see how it's remotely possible for any version of Hulk to beat every mutant that has ever existed. Is this even being argued anymore?

Whoa!!! @DarkSaint85 I Have No Problem continuing the debate we had!! I mean f*ck carver cause when it comes to a Hulk vs A Team(Avengers etc) thread he is just as useful as using hands to move a tree. So u wanna debate I'm right here.

So do people legitimately think that a team of Hulks can beat every mutant that has ever existed?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
More than likely. Well, me, in any case. But I'll try and explain my reasoning.

If you read our posts, we DID say that saying the Hulk is powerful isn't wrong per se - I agreed that he is. But there are caveats to his power, in that it is pretty much physical only. IMHO.

Some, that is true. But our statements were more aimed at users like guy and theHulk, who see the Hulk's physical strength as being sufficient to overcome people like classic Dr Strange.

I don't recall low-balling this feat, let alone multiple times - but if you can recall my own actions better than I, feel free to prove me wrong.

So is HP Doomsday powerful to you?

Originally posted by TheHulk
Whoa!!! @DarkSaint85 I Have No Problem continuing the debate we had!! I mean f*ck carver cause when it comes to a Hulk vs A Team(Avengers etc) thread he is just as useful as using hands to move a tree. So u wanna debate I'm right here.

I know Hulk limit and I can't see him beating every mutant on the planet. It depends on how Hulk fights and I can't see him taking out a Earth just to kill everyone and that's exactly what he will have to do in order to beat every XMen.

Originally posted by carver9
I know Hulk limit and I can't see him beating every mutant on the planet. It depends on how Hulk fights and I can't see him taking out a Earth just to kill everyone and that's exactly what he will have to do in order to beat every XMen.

So you think that he can beat legion? Pheonix? How?

Originally posted by carver9
So is HP Doomsday powerful to you?

Physically powerful? Sure. All-round powerful? No. I mean, he has that nifty 'evolve past what kills him' ability, but he's no Resurrection Man. And he has some bone claws I guess...

Actually, scratch that. He's > bone-claw Wolverine, therefore he's teh most awesomest character evah!

Originally posted by Sirius77
So you think that he can beat legion? Pheonix? How?

I wouldn't consider Phoenix an XMen. No, he can not beat Legion.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Physically powerful? Sure. All-round powerful? No. I mean, he has that nifty 'evolve past what kills him' ability, but he's no Resurrection Man. And he has some bone claws I guess...

Actually, scratch that. He's > bone-claw Wolverine, therefore he's teh most awesomest character evah!

That's the thing though...Hulk is much more than just a physical character.

Originally posted by carver9
I wouldn't consider Phoenix an XMen. No, he can not beat Legion.

Not even when Jean got that white and gold costume?