Well, they had a very successful opening weekend, for a 13 year old film that apparently no one likes. So this thread and all the snarky opinions here are full of bantha poodoo. 😛
Food for thought:
http://movies.yahoo.com/news/why-star-wars-prequels-better-original-trilogy-160300514.html
Weird review. The guy says the PT is better structured??? OMG, it it is not at all. Also, he doesn't give much proof for that, he just goes on saying the PT fits the time of now better than the OT? What kind of a review is that? It bears only a bit of relevance to how the movies are made, emotionally and structurally... the PT severely fails there.
Here's an an opinion that's a bit different, with some good critical thought.
http://www.mania.com/mania-review-phantom-menace-3d_article_132147.html
Well, even this review I find strange. He lists the plus points of TPM: we see the Jedi in their prime, we see more planets in the universe, Maul is a good toy seller and Liam Neeson finds a way to make the wooden dialogue work. Not one serious comment about the story, the review mentions it but only lists TOPICS as its strong points. That's bizarre... movies aren't supposed to be encyclopedia's.
I think his point that whatever flaws you find in the films method, they benefit just by being part of the overall Star wars narrative, slotting important story pieces in the pie. Our knowledge of the first three films helps cover over flaws in the PT. It is having it both ways I admit, as Lucas repeatedly said he wants people to be able to watch I-VI in that order without being tipped off, but we can see the foreshadowing and ironic moments when they happen (ie. Obi Wan in Episode II: "Why do I think you're going to be the death of me?" - and many others)
And even then, why does Lucas keep it a secret that Palpy is Sidious. We know from many filmmakers including the great Hitchcock that suspense works better if the viewer knows more than the protagonists? Making the link Palpy-Sidious known during TPM would have had a much more sinister effect on the ending... And making the other ironic foreshadowing quote "We will watch your career with great interest" also a lot stronger. And in fact, less foreshadowing, more revealing to Palpy's intentions.
The kinda forced way he tries to keep Palpy's identity secret also reveals a knowledge of the OT.
Originally posted by queeq
And even then, why does Lucas keep it a secret that Palpy is Sidious. We know from many filmmakers including the great Hitchcock that suspense works better if the viewer knows more than the protagonists? Making the link Palpy-Sidious known during TPM would have had a much more sinister effect on the ending... And making the other ironic foreshadowing quote "We will watch your career with great interest" also a lot stronger. And in fact, less foreshadowing, more revealing to Palpy's intentions.The kinda forced way he tries to keep Palpy's identity secret also reveals a knowledge of the OT.
I'm unsure whether Lucas could ever please you, queeq. Yes, Lucas didn't make the best of a trilogy with the PT, but I don't think there's anything good about them for you. This quote, for example. If they had let known the Palpy-Sids connection in TPM, then I could see you complaining that they let out one of the biggest reveals in the PT.
I disagree with you here, personally. The fact that they kept this connection from the viewer enhanced the tension. Everything we see seems to be all in good faith. There are a few sinister camera angles (see TPM when Yoda and Mace talk about there being two Sith at any given time and the camera pans over to Palpy) that may make the viewer wonder of his true intentions, but leaving the reveal until RotS was a smart move, in my opinion. It makes the viewer want to re-watch the first two movies to scrutinise Palpy's actions and finding out the true nature behind them and seeing that they really were pretty sinister.
That's one of my favourite parts about re-watching the PT is to try and find something new about Palpy's actions and how they flow together and better understanding his manipulations.
Such a negative nancy this place is. Reminds me why I don't come by here as often anymore.
I like the guy on the first page who said the PT wasn't going to compete with the OT. You're right. You negatvie Nelly's made it a competition and don't leave it alone...ever.
You spend years and years on a page griping about something you all hate, and you won't leave it alone. So much time spent on something you all hate.
BTW: How did LUCAS f up the originals with the PT? Cause he did things you guys didn't like or didn't agree with? Well...that's tough.
They're just movies...and the PT is far better than a lot of movies out there. Your notion is that they suck when compared against the OT. How do they compare against movies like Batman & Robin and Battlefield Earth? If you all think the PT are bad films, then you certainly haven't watched enough films in your lives. Every single gripe about the PT has something to do with comparing them to the originals. It's so fricken tiring.
Nothing really goes on here anymore except for complaining about crap. It's not fun. It's a real shame when I think back to the good old days here and how awesome it used to be. Nothing left of that now except negativeness. It's been fun, or was fun, but no thanks anymore.
Enjoy spending the rest of your lives here crying about it. I'm moving on.
Later, and thanks for the memories. (the old ones at least.)
I agree with most of that these days.
I might not like all SW stuff, but the movies still remain king for me.
Some of us have been vocal on our surprise/disatisfactions but like you say they still, on the whole, beat the piss out of other movies/sagas.
But I still will wait for the OT in 3d before I go see em. 🙂
partially agreed with queeq. not sure about it making the OT look better, but no the PT did not ruin the OT. george lucas did.
on a semi-related note, i am equally a hardcore godfather 1&2 fan while i feel that 3 was a steaming pile. of course this has never hampered my enjoyment of 1&2 since copola didnt edit them to 'improve' them. i make the decision to not watch the 3rd and all is well. but that doesnt seem to work for star wars...
all many fans ask for is to have the originals on bluray unaltered. give us that and lucas can go on to make eps 7, 8 , 9, where ewoks and gungans become the new jedi order and do slapstic for hours complete with juggling, falling over stuff, and stepping in poop. my blessings. i wouldnt care since i wouldnt watch it.
also i love how certain people accuse others of 'crying' and being 'fanboys' etc because they dont like someone's opinion. perhaps a lack of belittling condescension would be more effective?
Plus there is the issue of discussing the merits of a film, which include narrative structure, substance, characterisation, cinematography. And where the OT was ground breaking as movies as a whole, the PT was not.
And yes, I expected the PT to raise the bar of making movies again a bit (like LOTR did, like Avatar did). Is that too much to ask? Of more editions of the franchise that changed film history and the same film makers are at it? Maybe? But why would it be too much to ask?
I've had a night to reflect on what I wrote and in the event of not going out of here on a sour note, there's a few things I want to clarify and address in a more respectful manner since you all deserve as much. Then you can write back whatever you want and get the last word in, because I won't be clicking back on these forums.
This upcoming April will have made 8 years since I joined KMC. Some of you have been around longer than I have. I met a lot of great people here and there was a time when I loved this place, and always will be happy I found you guys here.
The problem is that these forums (or the PT section in particular) is running on fumes now...and these fumes are toxic for the most part. It's nothing but negativity. I understand you're all entitled to an opinion and that's great. I just fail to see how if you all hate something so much you spend year after year not letting it go. That leads me to believe that either some of you are in denial and as much as you like to say you hate it, a part of you actually likes it...or 2.) you just don't know how to move on. Again, AOTC is almost a decade old, and TPM is almost 13 years old, and still, for something you all hate so much, you keep talking about it. That's gotta be some kind of a record. A director that can keep people b*tching for 13 years...why not just move on if you didn't like it?
You see places like this are exactly the problem when it comes to these films. You spend too much time here picking apart every single detail of the movie, looking for all the flaws instead of pointing out all the major pluses. There were plenty of them, and if you can't admit to it, you're all too hung up in anti-Lucas land.
I've done plenty of digging around these forums, and it's funny to read some of the post on the AOTC release night as well as ROTS one and compare them to the type of things you say today. In fact one of you acknowledged AOTC as much better than TPM and specifically said "The plot is very good." Congrats, you are correct. The plot was good, or if at the very least, I think "entertaining" is an appropriate word. But the bottom line is that you actually gave Lucas some credit.
So what happened then? It's exactly what I've been saying all along. People spend too much time on a forum, and then constantly constantly constantly look for all the shortcomings...and once they find 1 or 2, they go out of their way to find 3 and 4, and so on and so forth until 1 year becomes 2 years...5 years etc of picking apart everything you didn't like to the point where you can no longer enjoy a 2 hour piece of entertainment. Sure, there was plenty of suckage and things that could have been better. Sure..there were plenty of things done "well" however and if you all would just suspend your beliefs for just a moment and try to remember it's just a movie...then, as a movie, it's not the terror you all make it out to be. Not even close. Honestly, I don't blame Lucas for walking away from this crap too. The guy could wake up tomorrow pissing diamonds and you guys would spend 13 years analyzing how the diamonds are too small...the color is off...it's not sharp enough...he's made enough diamonds that he should give every person in the country at least one...etc etc etc
I hope you're catching my drift. It gets old really fast. What I've pretty much come to the conclusion is that this place just isn't going anywhere anymore. I enjoyed the PT for what they were. I suspended my beliefs and brought out the inner-child in me, and I liked them. I cannot stand the excessive complaining about it anymore. If you guys have nothing better to do with your lives except to bash Lucas until the end of time, have fun. But I don't want to listen to it anymore. And yes I've seen the Red Letter Media reviews of the movies and they are hilarious...however, my point exactly, when you have that much free time on your hands to take absolutely every single part of the movie out of context and blow it far and wide to the end of the earth, then you lack having any type of coherent life whatsoever.
Granted that it all sounds a bit harsh, I have nothing against some of you guys personally, especially Queeq and PVS who are entitled to their opinions, but just understand my point of view, I've run out of steam coming here reading this same stuff over and over and over again. It's time to move on. There old days were fun...but for some reason we can't seem to have that anymore except constant negativeness.
On that note, I'm closing this 8 year chapter here on KMC. It WAS fun and I'm happy to have found you guys and to have shared a lot of great discussions. It's just one of those deals which I've said time and time again, I don't have the steam for it anymore and it's so damn annoying with all the LUCAS bashing. We can't go one thread without beating a dead horse into the ground and reminding the world how Georgie boy ruined everyone's lives.
Hopefully you guys have fun from here on out. You won't have to listen to me being positive about the films anymore. lol Thanks for all your friendships, even though we don't always agree and most often don't, I won't forget all the great times we had here. Again, I'm happy to have found you guys and wish you all the very best.
JP...even though you're rarely on here anymore, and we don't get to talk as often...all I can say is, thanks. Thanks for everything. Thanks for being the first friend I made here, thanks for all those awesome old time chats, thanks for all the fun we had roleplaying, all the great hyperspace hacking (lol) and just in general, thanks for all the wonderful memories. You are the best part of KMC I am leaving behind and the very best SW buddy I made here and really wish I didn't have to say goodbye. In my best Obi-Wan voice, "You were a good friend." I won't ever forget ya.
Thanks for everything guys and for all the good years. After 7546 post, I conclude my contributions to these forums, as I've said, it's just time for me to move on.
Please forgive me for being so harsh on the post before. It's not the way I wanted to end 8 years here. I feel this one however, is a tad bit more appropriate.
Goodbye friends.
*drops lightsaber to the ground and takes off Sith robe gazing upon the dual susnset. Turns around to wave at all his friends.*
"May the the force be with you guys...always."
-SMX-
Wow... that was a sudden turn of events. Too bad, SMX. And too bad you feel this way. I kinda get where you're coming from. But it's not just fumes, I must disagree. SW keeps coming out (on blu Ray, now 3D)... so it's kinda contemporary, it's not just something that came out 13 years ago... I came out last week, again. And sometimes you change your mind about things you are close to, and sometimes you are confronted again with its short comings.
But in the end, it is just a movie. There's no personal harm in criticing a movie. It has no life, no feelings... but hey, if you feel this place is no fun anymore, I am sorry to hear that.
But err... you can take the lightsabre with you. It's complimentary. 😉
in more recent news, george lucas continues trolling his fanbase.
The controversy over who shot first, Greedo or Han Solo, in Episode IV, what I did was try to clean up the confusion, but obviously it upset people because they wanted Solo (who seemed to be the one who shot first in the original) to be a cold-blooded killer, but he actually isn't. It had been done in all close-ups and it was confusing about who did what to whom. I put a little wider shot in there that made it clear that Greedo is the one who shot first, but everyone wanted to think that Han shot first, because they wanted to think that he actually just gunned him down.
we were all actually just confused. greedo shot first...outside the frame. with a silenced blaster firing invisible lasers and zero smoke. wow im glad he cleared that up.
Well... some people get offended when we comment Lucas, but this is one of those typical things. Why doesn't he just say: I don't think it fits Solo's character, I know I did it in 1977 this way, now I do it this way. Then we can all diagree, ask for the OOt on Blu Ray and be done with it. But no... now he suddenly always intended Solo to shoot first.
If there is a gripe I have with Lucas is his silly need to change history, while we can all read and watch that a lot of what he says now isn't exactly true.
but greedo had a blaster pointed at his chest and clearly intended to blow him away, which he was also looking forward to btw. it was self defense and a completely justifiable homicide...or...amphibiacide?
is that the new standard of movie heroism? "sure he has me locked in at point blank range and says he's going to kill me now, but maybe he's just kidding. i'll wait till he fires and misses like a jackass, hopefully"
the cold-blooded aspect was there as han casually walks away and apologises to the bartended for the mess as if he simply spilled his beer. so maybe george lucas needs to edit it once again so we can see tears of deep sorry streaming down han's face.
...all I really want George Lucas to do is to release the originals (or at least release the VHS ones (1982-1995 ones) on Blu-Ray).
It's too bad that he seems so stingy to do so. I personally will not watch the Special Editions since I prefer to watch movies in their original format as close as possible.
Originally posted by focus4chumps
but greedo had a blaster pointed at his chest and clearly intended to blow him away, which he was also looking forward to btw. it was self defense and a completely justifiable homicide...or...amphibiacide?is that the new standard of movie heroism? "sure he has me locked in at point blank range and says he's going to kill me now, but maybe he's just kidding. i'll wait till he fires and misses like a jackass, hopefully"
the cold-blooded aspect was there as han casually walks away and apologises to the bartended for the mess as if he simply spilled his beer. so maybe george lucas needs to edit it once again so we can see tears of deep sorry streaming down han's face.
😂
Well, yes, I agree... Greedo would either take him to Jabba or kill him. His end would not be nice. So what does the pirate do? He kills the guy that is about to bring him to an end.
Apart from changing Solo's character, it's even sillier now. Solo shoots a guy who can't even shoot straight in less than a meter... What danger does Greedo pose if he can't even kill him from that distance? Now THAT makes Solo a cold hearted killer: killing someone who doesn't even pose a threat to him...
There can only be one conclusion: the scene is screwed now.