Originally posted by Bat Dude
Most fairy tales are usually laced with occult symbolism.The Bible, however, is the perfect Word of God.
I think I know which one I favor...
Really? What is your proof for the bible being the "perfect Word of God"?
Is it because, that is what the bible says, or is it just something you believe?
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
You know, Jews and Christians (most, actually) believe Bible was written by men but inspired by God. Traditionally this has been the case.
Bam!
Of course that's a logical fallacy because it is "argumentum ad populum". However, that's that way I believe it is intended.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Also, original Christianity, as in the first 500 years or so, Christianity had many mystical and ''occultish'' things in it.
Ironically, much later it was the Catholic Church that declared all mystical Christian practices as ''heresy'' and ''from Satan''. It wasn't originally so.First Christians practised ''magic'' as part of the Christian mysticism. It is still present with some orthodox Christians.
One thing that was 'removed' totally from the Bible was the belief in reincarnation and the idea of eternal Hell was brought in.
This too, (eternal hell) was not the original Christian teaching.
I myself, personally, think some form of reincarnation is possible...even as a Christian. One of the "lost" gospels talks about that. It was "magically" struck from the canon.
The support using the existing Bible (OT and NT) is weak and feeble. It is only with the lost gospels that we find awesome support for a form of reincarnation.
I believe it is fully possible that we have to be reborn over and over again until we get it right...with subtle influences, from our souls, from past lives. I don't know if that's true: I only think it is possible.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Bam!Of course that's a logical fallacy because it is "argumentum ad populum". However, that's that way I believe it is intended.
I myself, personally, think some form of reincarnation is possible...even as a Christian. One of the "lost" gospels talks about that. It was "magically" struck from the canon.
The support using the existing Bible (OT and NT) is weak and feeble. It is only with the lost gospels that we find awesome support for a form of reincarnation.
I believe it is fully possible that we have to be reborn over and over again until we get it right...with subtle influences, from our souls, from past lives. I don't know if that's true: I only think it is possible.
That was the original Christian idea - I can't recall who exactly scrapped the reincarnation idea and brought in eternal Hell. I might have to do a search on it again sometime.
I recall reading about it, God lets people be reborn on earth until their soul is pure enough to enter Heaven or until we repay all sins and transgressions to each other. In an essence, we are in Hell now. Hence Jesus' arrival to guide everyone out of hell and rebirth, hence the teaching of 'love thy enemy', pray for those who persecute you, sell everything and give it to the poor...and the likes.
I searched this years ago and I stumbled upon all sorts of stuff about this.
Don't quote me on here, I'm talking from memory, but I think it was something along those lines.
Christianity was more fun back then...
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
That was the original Christian idea - I can't recall who exactly scrapped the reincarnation idea and brought in eternal Hell. I might have to do a search on it again sometime.I recall reading about it, God lets people be reborn on earth until their soul is pure enough to enter Heaven or until we repay all sins and transgressions to each other. In an essence, we are in Hell now. Hence Jesus' arrival to guide everyone out of hell and rebirth, hence the teaching of 'love thy enemy', pray for those who persecute you, sell everything and give it to the poor...and the likes.
I searched this years ago and I stumbled upon all sorts of stuff about this.
Don't quote me on here, I'm talking from memory, but I think it was something along those lines.
Christianity was more fun back then...
Yeah, that's pretty much one of the ideas I entertain: this is hell. Hell is a state of mind and mortality. God does little to interact with creation and we act as God through Godly acts.
This is how a Buddhist, tribal member, atheist, puritan, etc. can all obtain "heaven" after death, imo. Just be a good person and the benevolent God will not give a damn (pun?) about what religion you were. That's almost superfluous.
However, I am still do not know if reincarnation is really the "path". In a way, all Muslims/Christians/Jews believe in reincarnation: we just go to a different life on another plane.
Really? What is your proof for the bible being the "perfect Word of God"?
Every prophecy of the Bible has come true so far.
As a Bible-believing Christian, of course I believe it to be inspired by God.
Originally posted by Deja~vu
What? There are all kinds of occult symbolisms in the Bible. Heck, they followed astrology. Also, the way the Temple faced was based on the Sun.
That's laughable, tbh.
The Bible CONDEMNS astrology. In the Old Testament, the punishment for astrology was death. The Bible completely condemns any and all forms of witchcraft.
"For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do." -Deuteronomy 18:14
"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." -Exodus 22:18
And those are just two of the MANY verses that condemn witchcraft.
Also, original Christianity, as in the first 500 years or so, Christianity had many mystical and ''occultish'' things in it.Also, original Christianity, as in the first 500 years or so, Christianity had many mystical and ''occultish'' things in it.
Ironically, much later it was the Catholic Church that declared all mystical Christian practices as ''heresy'' and ''from Satan''. It wasn't originally so.
First Christians practised ''magic'' as part of the Christian mysticism. It is still present with some orthodox Christians.
One thing that was 'removed' totally from the Bible was the belief in reincarnation and the idea of eternal Hell was brought in.
This too, (eternal hell) was not the original Christian teaching.
The Bible condemns witchcraft. Why would the early Christians go against the Bible like that? It makes no sense whatsoever.
The Roman Catholic Church practices witchcraft with all of their phony exorcism ceremonies and "holy" water. But the Catholic Church didn't start until hundreds of years AFTER Jesus' death. They don't even follow the Bible, anyway, but that's a discussion for another time.
Originally posted by Bat Dude
Every prophecy of the Bible has come true so far.As a Bible-believing Christian, of course I believe it to be inspired by God...
Prophecies do not see into the future. They reflect the times in witch they were written. What you are seeing is what is called post-diction. That means you place the prophecy and the even together after the event has taken place. That is called post-diction. For a prophecy to be a prophecy, it must predict an exact event that has not yet happened. It cannot be vague, or open to interpretation. A prophecy would be: Tomorrow at 12:00 pacific time, a large meter will strike the ocean off the coast of Oregon, then it has to happen exactly as predicted.
The reason the “prophecies” in the bible are vague, are because they are nothing more then imaginings on one hand, or fraud on the other.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Prophecies do not see into the future. They reflect the times in witch they were written. What you are seeing is what is called post-diction. That means you place the prophecy and the even together after the event has taken place. That is called post-diction. For a prophecy to be a prophecy, it must predict an exact event that has not yet happened. It cannot be vague, or open to interpretation. A prophecy would be: Tomorrow at 12:00 pacific time, a large meter will strike the ocean off the coast of Oregon, then it has to happen exactly as predicted.The reason the “prophecies” in the bible are vague, are because they are nothing more then imaginings on one hand, or fraud on the other.
I don't know. I'm very partial to the prophecy about people preaching the word for money...and paying money to receive forgiveness of sins. That was fairly spot on.
Originally posted by dadudemon
I don't know. I'm very partial to the prophecy about people preaching the word for money...and paying money to receive forgiveness of sins. That was fairly spot on.
But that is human nature. How could you go wrong with such a prophecy.
It would be like prophesying that people are going to have sex.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But that is human nature. How could you go wrong with such a prophecy.It would be like prophesying that people are going to have sex.
By making the prophecy it should automatically deter it from happening because everyone would be like, 'dude, you can't sell forgiveness because it is specifically philosophized about as being evil."
NOPE!
The word was kept "secret" and only educated monks and priests were allowed to read the bible. Thus paving the way for them to get away with "selling forgiveness" during medieval times (which continues by various churches, to this day...in various forms).
But I sort of agree that "buying salvation" has been around since Egyptians bought their burials for the after life. In the middle kingdom, you could better your afterlife by being buried with more stuff to help you there. That's similar to, but not the same as, buying forgiveness of sins...but it is a similar concept.
Originally posted by dadudemon
By making the prophecy it should automatically deter it from happening because everyone would be like, 'dude, you can't sell forgiveness because it is specifically philosophized about as being evil."NOPE!
The word was kept "secret" and only educated monks and priests were allowed to read the bible. Thus paving the way for them to get away with "selling forgiveness" during medieval times (which continues by various churches, to this day...in various forms).
But I sort of agree that "buying salvation" has been around since Egyptians bought their burials for the after life. In the middle kingdom, you could better your afterlife by being buried with more stuff to help you there. That's similar to, but not the same as, buying forgiveness of sins...but it is a similar concept.
People of the past were just as smart as we are. They didn't have the information that we have, but did understand people.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
People of the past were just as smart as we are. They didn't have the information that we have, but did understand people.
That's not true. Intelligence and education has increased greatly in the last 200 years. Now, an idiot by today's western standards, would know more than most if not all of the greatest minds on some of the big things.
For instance, my wife thinks she's dumb when it comes to science. I told her it is all about perspective. She didn't know what I meant. I said, "pretend you go back in time 200 years. You'd know more about modern science than anyone else. What is an electron and what is its function"?
😐
Serious business.
There's tons of other things that even people that think they are dumb, are not. What about eating habits? What about modern medicine?
Just simply knowing about stuff and telling a genius from 200 hundred years ago could cause it to be done. Describe an artificial heart and explain the need of ultra-sanitary operating environments. Hell, just explain germs in an operating environment and that would be a massive jump in medicine for 200 years ago.
Originally posted by dadudemon
That's not true. Intelligence and education has increased greatly in the last 200 years. Now, an idiot by today's western standards, would know more than most if not all of the greatest minds on some of the big things.For instance, my wife thinks she's dumb when it comes to science. I told her it is all about perspective. She didn't know what I meant. I said, "pretend you go back in time 200 years. You'd know more about modern science than anyone else. What is an electron and what is its function"?
😐
Serious business.
There's tons of other things that even people that think they are dumb, are not. What about eating habits? What about modern medicine?
Just simply knowing about stuff and telling a genius from 200 hundred years ago could cause it to be done. Describe an artificial heart and explain the need of ultra-sanitary operating environments. Hell, just explain germs in an operating environment and that would be a massive jump in medicine for 200 years ago.
We are not talking about the same thing. I am not talking about information; I am talking about the brain. They had the same brain that we have. They filled their brains with different stuff they we do.
They could live in the wild with nothing, and build a kingdom. You put a genius from today in the wilderness, and take away his iPhone, he will be dead in days.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
We are not talking about the same thing. I am not talking about information; I am talking about the brain. They had the same brain that we have. They filled their brains with different stuff they we do.
K.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
They could live in the wild with nothing, and build a kingdom. You put a genius from today in the wilderness, and take away his iPhone, he will be dead in days.
Not necessarily. 😄
If you were to do that to a city dweller from "back then", as well, they'd die just the same as the genius you refer to from these days. That's because they wouldn't know any better.
I'm a tech nerd to the max. Put me in the wilderness (assuming it is not extreme cold or desert) and I'd survive just fine. That's actually what was done as part of my "Wilderness Survival" merit badge when I was 15. We were driven out into the remote woods, had to build our own shelters and toilets, and killed our own food and ate it (squirrel and fish is what we ate those 4 nights). Oh, and...someone found lots of pecans so we supplemented our diets with wild pecans which was awesome.
Here's the thing: there are more people, now, that could survive in various situations than people back then. This is due to our knowledge and modern medicine. We know how to filter water in ways that were not considered back then (that's actually a requirement for the Wilderness Survival merit badge, lol. You have to demonstrate filtering water in at least 3 different ways). We know how to treat wounds better. We know how to prepare our food better. Bla bla bla. Etc. and so forth.
What's the difference? Back in the day (I am aiming for 200+ years), they did not have access to as much information as we do now. They also did not know as much as we do, now. A highschool student will graduate from highschool (hopefully) knowing more about particle physics than any scientist could possibly know from 200 years ago. That's just amazing. Also, you have techy office nerds like me that could live in almost in climate and survive simply because I was exposed to information that thousands (millions?) of people discovered and refined in the last 200 years. I COULD NOT do that without their discoveries.
One last thing: now, we can know this information in a few seconds by searching for it on our information networks or locally stored information. That's even more amazing.
Originally posted by dadudemon
That's not true. Intelligence and education has increased greatly in the last 200 years. Now, an idiot by today's western standards, would know more than most if not all of the greatest minds on some of the big things.For instance, my wife thinks she's dumb when it comes to science. I told her it is all about perspective. She didn't know what I meant. I said, "pretend you go back in time 200 years. You'd know more about modern science than anyone else. What is an electron and what is its function"?
Erm, that definition of intelligence gets you weird results. A competent physics undergrad will come away from college knowing more about relativity than Einstein ever did but I'd argue that that fact says little about their respective intelligence.
Knowledge is easy to get, every generation is more knowledgeable than the last, but being intelligent is about being able to have great thoughts, which I think has remained more constant over the course of history.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Erm, that definition of intelligence gets you weird results.
It is quite obvious which definition I am using.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
A competent physics undergrad will come away from college knowing more about relativity than Einstein ever did but I'd argue that that fact says little about their respective intelligence.
That's non-sequitur.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Knowledge is easy to get, every generation is more knowledgeable than the last, but being intelligent is about being able to have great thoughts, which I think has remained more constant over the course of history.
That's your definition but not the context for which I was using "intelligence'.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Erm, that definition of intelligence gets you weird results. A competent physics undergrad will come away from college knowing more about relativity than Einstein ever did but I'd argue that that fact says little about their respective intelligence.Knowledge is easy to get, every generation is more knowledgeable than the last, but being intelligent is about being able to have great thoughts, which I think has remained more constant over the course of history.
depending on how you feel about IQ tests, they do show upward trends over time. There are lots of theories about it, but as a consequence, the "mean" IQ score needs to be reset from time to time so that it actually reflects a score of "100".
Again though, depends on how you feel about IQ tests.
EDIT: no, I don't know why I included quotation marks...
Originally posted by inimalist
depending on how you feel about IQ tests, they do show upward trends over time. There are lots of theories about it, but as a consequence, the "mean" IQ score needs to be reset from time to time so that it actually reflects a score of "100".Again though, depends on how you feel about IQ tests.
EDIT: no, I don't know why I included quotation marks...
This cat knows. 313