Originally posted by SamZEDIf you can't compare the two, then why are they being compared?
I don't but if I did I wouldn't kill them and I would count that as a feat of will power. You keep missing the point. For Cap not killing someone is not an achievement, for Logan it is because it's his nature. He's basically an animal that was programmed to murder things and he constantly struggles against it. Cap has nothing to give into, just like for you and me for him it is a matter of choice. For Logan it's not. You can't compare those things.
The only point I'm not getting, is why the hell is impressive in the first place when Wolverine does kill, and he kills often?
You want to compare him to an animal, then fine. What animal kills everything it comes in contact with? Animals don't just kill everything all the time. Even the most viscious animal can be tamed as well.
Cap is not comparable to you or me. I don't go out and fight mass murderers and people who want to destroy the world.
Wolverine doesn't kill friends. Cap doesn't kill mass murderers.
yeah, i agree with bran. logan DOES kill--he's killed A LOT of times. do we just say 'meh, he also DIDN'T kill some people, therefore he's got great willpower?' i don't think so. on top of that, i think logan's animal nature is what has been proven--often--to CONTRIBUTE to his willpower. his 'animal nature' does not allow him to give up, or 'be mastered.' then too there is the associations he has made that help/force him to retain control.
i'll take cap everytime over the animal who sometimes plays--and pulls off, except when he doesn't--being human.
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb😬 Was this necessary?
If you can't compare the two, then why are they being compared?
Originally posted by Sr J-BiebSo that's the way of debating you're going with? Nit-picking? Animal was just an analogy. Wolverine kills because its in his nature. He can go berserk at any time and he was shown overcoming this state time and time again. That's why its impressive. Cap never had to deal with something like that.
The only point I'm not getting, is why the hell is impressive in the first place when Wolverine does kill, and he kills often?
You want to compare him to an animal, then fine. What animal kills everything it comes in contact with? Animals don't just kill everything all the time. Even the most viscious animal can be tamed as well.
Originally posted by Sr J-BiebOk, dont compare him to you or me. Compare him to gazillion other boyscouts in spandex who fight murderers and refuse to kill them because of their moral standarts or upbringing or whatever. That's not a feat of will. That's called making a choice. Not a big deal. Would love to see them try and resist the berserkers rage though. Still dont see the difference?
Cap is not comparable to you or me. I don't go out and fight mass murderers and people who want to destroy the world.
Wolverine doesn't kill friends. Cap doesn't kill mass murderers.
Originally posted by SamZEDYes. You're comparing two things that in no way prove superiourity of Wolverine even if 100% true.
😬 Was this necessary?
You know what I meant so dont act like you didnt. You can compare m-16 to a bag of oranges. You can. But that would be stupid. Same here.So that's the way of debating you're going with? Nit-picking? Animal was just an analogy. Wolverine kills because its in his nature. He can go berserk at any time and he was shown overcoming this state time and time again. That's why its impressive. Cap never had to deal with something like that.
Ok, dont compare him to you or me. Compare him to gazillion other boyscouts in spandex who fight murderers and refuse to kill them because of their moral standarts or upbringing or whatever. That's not a feat of will. That's called making a choice. Not a big deal. Would love to see them try and resist the berserkers rage though. Still dont see the difference?
How is that nitpicking? It's not like I said "Wolverine killed this one guy one time". I said Wolverine killed many people, lots of times. Which is true... very true. That's not nitpicking at all. Nitpicking would be saying Wolverine doesn't kill his friends...
If you're going to use "animal" so literally, then don't be surprised for people to question that line of logic.
What boyscouts? Batman? Superman? Because those two are pretty huge will powerhouses...
Making a choice isn't seperate from a feat of will. You don't think it takes will to resist killing mass murderers when you have the chance? When every fiber of your being tells you to kill someone, and you stand up to that and say no, then that's just a simple choice?
You know what I'd love to see? Wolverine breaking control of the Carnage symbiote, like Cap did. Wolverine fighting a Skyfather level being with the Cosmic Cube by himself in a neverending cycle where the timeline plays over again and again until Cap's raw determination causes the Skyfather level being to cease and give up his power.
Originally posted by Sr J-BiebNever said im trying to prove his superiority, never even argued he has a superior will power. Feel free to quote me.
Yes. You're comparing two things that in no way prove superiourity of Wolverine even if 100% true.
Originally posted by Sr J-BiebNo its not. Again, im not arguig that this feat proves Wolverine has superior will. Im arguing because you dont see the difference.
"Wolverine's will allows him to not kill people.
Cap's chooses not to kill people."
So? How does this prove Wolverine is more impressive in this aspect. If we follow the logic supplied here without question, then it's just a one sided affair of will.
But it is comparable, and that's what you don't want to hear.
Originally posted by Sr J-BiebOnly people who choose to be (forgive me for using the term) smartasses instead of contributing to the actual debate. I said Wolverine is like an animal who's programmed to kill, so you give me examples of Cezar Millan trining puppies to prove a point?😬 The only possible way that could work is if there were animal-like mutants in RL that were brainwashed by mad scientists/government into killing people.
How is that nitpicking? It's not like I said "Wolverine killed this one guy one time". I said Wolverine killed many people, lots of times. Which is true... very true. That's not nitpicking at all. Nitpicking would be saying Wolverine doesn't kill his friends...
If you're going to use "animal" so literally, then don't be surprised for people to question that line of logic.
Originally posted by Sr J-BiebAnd you still only have to make a choice. Again, you're comparing apples to oranges. Where apples are "I wanna kill you so bad but you're not worth it and im not a murder like you" and oranges are "Killing mode activated. Programmed to destroy everything on sight. Killkillkillkillkill." Still dont see how its equelly impressive.
What boyscouts? Batman? Superman? Because those two are pretty huge will powerhouses...
Making a choice isn't seperate from a feat of will. You don't think it takes will to resist killing mass murderers when you have the chance? When every fiber of your being tells you to kill someone, and you stand up to that and say no, then that's just a simple choice?
Originally posted by Sr J-BiebFunny you brought that up, thought about posting that scan here once Ive read the issue. Wolverine actually has broken free from a symbiote controle. And the said symbiote wasnt trying to controle 5 thousand people simultaneously, just Logan. He has sh!tload of other feats. But ill let somebody else start a featwar if they feel like it. Because as I said, I never argued that Wolerine has superior will power. Was just elaborating on Nietzschean's post.
You know what I'd love to see? Wolverine breaking control of the Carnage symbiote, like Cap did. Wolverine fighting a Skyfather level being with the Cosmic Cube by himself in a neverending cycle where the timeline plays over again and again until Cap's raw determination causes the Skyfather level being to cease and give up his power.
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Are you talking about Cap or Wolverine here?Cap stood there while Nefaria "killed" people and told Moonknight not to kill him. Wolverine was shouting at the top of his lungs to kill him.
Cap refuses to kill as an Avenger, even the worst people. Wolverine refuses to kill select people, but still murders many people. And it's not like Cap is a stranger to killing people. WW2, select highlights of him killing people, etc. Hell, Cap didn't even kill Hitler, although he wasn't an Avenger at the time. Cap refuses to kill now because he believes that true heroes don't kill. That comes from him.
Your own comparison works against you.
He does kill but only as a last resort. You could argue that Wolverine has had a worse life.