Originally posted by Mistress-DeathGladiator wins. Stronger and faster. There is NO chance that bill would have been able to increase his speed the way Gladiator did in order to confront thor and the fantastic 4. Bill would have had to use reeds device just like thor did. Since it is well known that Gladiator can deliver planet destroying punches and can attack at said speed, bills only chance is if this fight takes place in a comic and not a forum battle.
Bill smashes his head in, and speed isn't a problem for bill
Originally posted by country1000
Gladiator wins. Stronger and faster. There is NO chance that bill would have been able to increase his speed the way Gladiator did in order to confront thor and the fantastic 4. Bill would have had to use reeds device just like thor did. Since it is well known that Gladiator can deliver planet destroying punches and can attack at said speed, bills only chance is if this fight takes place in a comic and not a forum battle.
Originally posted by abhilegendStill gladiator, besides, 616 gladiator was the one who increased his speed to 100 times light speed and destroyed a planet with his fist. Bill smashed a planet with his hammer, not his fist, big difference. Bill cannot engage gladiator in high speed combat and at the same time use his hammer as offense and defense. Do you remember when flash and zoom fought at light speed and superman was a statue? Well guess what, gladiator was moving 99 times faster. Do you think bill is faster than superman? You try again.
Alternate reality gladiator, not applicable for 616 gladiator and bill smashed planetS in his fight against stardust. Try again.
Originally posted by country1000
Still gladiator, besides, 616 gladiator was the one who increased his speed to 100 times light speed and destroyed a planet with his fist. Bill smashed a planet with his hammer, not his fist, big difference. Bill cannot engage gladiator in high speed combat and at the same time use his hammer as offense and defense. Do you remember when flash and zoom fought at light speed and superman was a statue? Well guess what, gladiator was moving 99 times faster. Do you think bill is faster than superman? You try again.
I tend to agree with your entire stance, but what of all of the times that Gladiator has lost to opponents much slower, or arguably weaker than himself? I think that this is the reason for many posters ignoring exactly what you stated, and are saying that Bill wins without considering Gladiator's best speed, strength, and striking feats.
Originally posted by StoicTrue, but what they are doing is using what happened to a character thats NOT a mainstream hero. gladiator will lose or fail to stomp heros or main characters in a comic book setting with limitations to what gladiator can do. They want to throw gladiators abilities out the window because of comic book fights like gladiator vs cannonball, gambit or characters he should and would crush is a forum battle.
I tend to agree with your entire stance, but what of all of the times that Gladiator has lost to opponents much slower, or arguably weaker than himself? I think that this is the reason for many posters ignoring exactly what you stated, and are saying that Bill wins without considering Gladiator's best speed, strength, and striking feats.
Now at the same time, they defend a HERO like superman or thor beating a skyfather villian that should wipe the floor with them. Its accepted to them that a hero or mainstream popular character beats villians like darkseid or thanos and we all know why the hero wins. They seem to forget that the bad guys will ALWAYS lose in the end in a comic, but would most likely crush the character that beat them in a forum battle.
So what we have is the HERO effect vs the bad guy effect. They know the bad guy will lose in the end in a comic ( just ask firelord when he fought spiderman ) or how cannonball and thing survived a fight with gladiator. So they use that against the bad guys but accept when the HERO beats someone that SHOULD murder them.
Originally posted by leonidasWrong. A villains will be portrayed 99% of the time getting his butt kicked no matter how well they performed at the beginning. Thus you cannot form a generalized opinion on them when you know full well they will lose to the hero 99% of the time no matter how strong,fast,smart or powerful they are. You HAVE to look at their ( couple ) of high end feats because thats all they have to gauge them, most of the time they are losing to HEROS they should be able to stomp using their powersets.
or we use most consistent feats as well as battles to form a more generalized opinion of a character and how they most commonly perform instead of looking at a couple high end feats and ignoring general portrayal. but, meh, to each their own.
Now on the other hand, the hero who is written to WIN 99% of the time will be judged highly because they win as heros MUST. Thats when people confuse the heros time to win with stuff such as... He stopped holding back and won, he stepped it up, his dial goes to 11, he was beaten before he was thrown into that reactor and other false beliefs. The bad guys DO NOT get that benefit, they are busy being written to lose to the hero making it impossible to gauge what they can do in a forum battle unless we use their ( shining moments ) or high end feats as FEW as they are. The HERO has tons of adverage feats because they WILL be written to save the day. But like you say, to each their own.
Originally posted by country1000
Still gladiator, besides, 616 gladiator was the one who increased his speed to 100 times light speed and destroyed a planet with his fist. Bill smashed a planet with his hammer, not his fist, big difference. Bill cannot engage gladiator in high speed combat and at the same time use his hammer as offense and defense. Do you remember when flash and zoom fought at light speed and superman was a statue? Well guess what, gladiator was moving 99 times faster. Do you think bill is faster than superman? You try again.
Really, because I think straight line travel and combat speed are two different things, eradicator has come from the edge of universe to earth in a few panels but he obviously can't fight at those speeds. Who cares, bill still has his hammer in this fight. Flash and zoom fought at faster than light speed and gladiator flew in a straight path, big whoop. Call me when you have something concrete but knowing you its not possible.
Originally posted by country1000
Wrong. A villains will be portrayed 99% of the time getting his butt kicked no matter how well they performed at the beginning. Thus you cannot form a generalized opinion on them when you know full well they will lose to the hero 99% of the time no matter how strong,fast,smart or powerful they are. You HAVE to look at their ( couple ) of high end feats because thats all they have to gauge them, most of the time they are losing to HEROS they should be able to stomp using their powersets.Now on the other hand, the hero who is written to WIN 99% of the time will be judged highly because they win as heros MUST. Thats when people confuse the heros time to win with stuff such as... He stopped holding back and won, he stepped it up, his dial goes to 11, he was beaten before he was thrown into that reactor and other false beliefs. The bad guys DO NOT get that benefit, they are busy being written to lose to the hero making it impossible to gauge what they can do in a forum battle unless we use their ( shining moments ) or high end feats as FEW as they are. The HERO has tons of adverage feats because they WILL be written to save the day. But like you say, to each their own.
Blah, blah, blah. Gladiator isn't a villain and tell that to doom, thanos, magneto etc.
Kallark can do it, I think, but the most likely choice is Bill imo.
Originally posted by country1000
Wrong. A villains will be portrayed 99% of the time getting his butt kicked no matter how well they performed at the beginning. Thus you cannot form a generalized opinion on them when you know full well they will lose to the hero 99% of the time no matter how strong,fast,smart or powerful they are. You HAVE to look at their ( couple ) of high end feats because thats all they have to gauge them, most of the time they are losing to HEROS they should be able to stomp using their powersets.Now on the other hand, the hero who is written to WIN 99% of the time will be judged highly because they win as heros MUST. Thats when people confuse the heros time to win with stuff such as... He stopped holding back and won, he stepped it up, his dial goes to 11, he was beaten before he was thrown into that reactor and other false beliefs. The bad guys DO NOT get that benefit, they are busy being written to lose to the hero making it impossible to gauge what they can do in a forum battle unless we use their ( shining moments ) or high end feats as FEW as they are. The HERO has tons of adverage feats because they WILL be written to save the day. But like you say, to each their own.
No, Leo is right. At least in the context of the debating format of this forum.
Originally posted by abhilegendDo you even know what you are talking about? What's the quickest way to an opponent face? A STRAIGHT LINE. Did eradicator run into metors, moons and planets? Was he out of control? Can a speedster outrun his OWN perception? Show me a scan of ANY speedster running or flying at speeds beyond light under their own power not being able to perceive objects or getting confused as to where they are going or knocking over stuff or running or flying into trees killing themselves.
Really, because I think straight line travel and combat speed are two different things, eradicator has come from the edge of universe to earth in a few panels but he obviously can't fight at those speeds. Who cares, bill still has his hammer in this fight. Flash and zoom fought at faster than light speed and gladiator flew in a straight path, big whoop. Call me when you have something concrete but knowing you its not possible.Blah, blah, blah. Gladiator isn't a villain and tell that to doom, thanos, magneto etc.
In order for gladiator to have even confronted thor and the fantastic 4, he had to 1. see them.... 2. notice what they were doing.... 3. catch up to them by increasing his speed to match.... 4. Maintain that speed to fight thor and interact with them after their little fight. Could bill have done that? NO. As far as something concrete, i dont need to present it to you, just look inside your head and you will find more than enough.
Originally posted by -Pr-Well then it appears that the debating format is set up to favor the Heros whereas the little used or bad guys get the short end of the stick. Thats unfair to people defending a character thats not a hero.
Kallark can do it, I think, but the most likely choice is Bill imo.No, Leo is right. At least in the context of the debating format of this forum.
Originally posted by country1000
Well then it appears that the debating format is set up to favor the Heros whereas the little used or bad guys get the short end of the stick. Thats unfair to people defending a character thats not a hero.
No it isn't. The PIS rule deals with any "they win because they're the hero" instances, and villains are judged on their feats and merits, not on plot.
Besides, I wouldn't even call someone like Gladiator a villain, tbh.
Originally posted by country1000
Wrong. A villains will be portrayed 99% of the time getting his butt kicked no matter how well they performed at the beginning. Thus you cannot form a generalized opinion on them when you know full well they will lose to the hero 99% of the time no matter how strong,fast,smart or powerful they are. You HAVE to look at their ( couple ) of high end feats because thats all they have to gauge them, most of the time they are losing to HEROS they should be able to stomp using their powersets.Now on the other hand, the hero who is written to WIN 99% of the time will be judged highly because they win as heros MUST. Thats when people confuse the heros time to win with stuff such as... He stopped holding back and won, he stepped it up, his dial goes to 11, he was beaten before he was thrown into that reactor and other false beliefs. The bad guys DO NOT get that benefit, they are busy being written to lose to the hero making it impossible to gauge what they can do in a forum battle unless we use their ( shining moments ) or high end feats as FEW as they are. The HERO has tons of adverage feats because they WILL be written to save the day. But like you say, to each their own.
yeah, that makes no sense. and why you keep referring to glads as a villain is beyond me. he hardly fits into the 'little used' category anymore either. he's got PLENTY of appearances now to form a general sense of where he falls. your stance makes no allowance at all for the character as a whole, and instead focuses on powerset by using a select scene or feat. it has nothing to do with hero/villain. and bad guys get the benefit of the doubt ALL the time on the forum, so your point is again rendered meaningless. we don't debate solely on highest feats around these parts. high end feats are only part of the picture adn without some consistent replication high feats can also be viewed as pis, just as low ones can. which is why a more consistent view of the character needs to be formed.
Originally posted by country1000
Do you even know what you are talking about? What's the quickest way to an opponent face? A STRAIGHT LINE. Did eradicator run into metors, moons and planets? Was he out of control? Can a speedster outrun his OWN perception? Show me a scan of ANY speedster running or flying at speeds beyond light under their own power not being able to perceive objects or getting confused as to where they are going or knocking over stuff or running or flying into trees killing themselves.In order for gladiator to have even confronted thor and the fantastic 4, he had to 1. see them.... 2. notice what they were doing.... 3. catch up to them by increasing his speed to match.... 4. Maintain that speed to fight thor and interact with them after their little fight. Could bill have done that? NO. As far as something concrete, i dont need to present it to you, just look inside your head and you will find more than enough.
Originally posted by carver9
Bill wins.
Originally posted by carver9
The thing about this is, I would give Thor and Bill the majority against "any" Herald. They are just too freaking powerful.
Originally posted by carver9
Like I've stated...Thor and Bill are too powerful for me to see a Herald getting a majority against them (minus Surfer...possibly).
Originally posted by WaveMotionGun
I like Gladiator 6/10. Full strength and confidence Gladiator can pull this out.
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