Companions of the hall vs Lord of the Rings

Originally posted by Digi
In terms of feats, Drizzt actually has as many archery feats (and probably more) than Legolas, and also an enchanted quiver with endless lightning arrows. There's no advantage anywhere for the Fellowship, long range or otherwise.

Sorry I should have stated this. I never intended for Drizzt to have catterberies bow (I know tech it his now).

Originally posted by Digi
Bruenor's...jobber aura.

Who jobbed to bruenor?

Originally posted by Digi
Any two of the Companions rock the **** out of the Fellowship. Maybe if you take out Drizzt, it's a fight. I mean, I am serious that I think Drizzt vs. Spider-Man would be a close matchup, and I am VERY familiar with both characters. Drizzt is just above the rest of the field here.

Originally posted by Digi

It's like 15 books in at this point. Good luck.

I think there actaully like 20 now.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
is salvatore still making more?

Originally posted by Lord Feron
is salvatore still making more?

Yes.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Who jobbed to bruenor?

No one really. Just needed a term to throw out there since he isn't tricked out magically like Drizzt.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Drizzt is not above Bruenor (who the most underrated character by far in the Drizzt series).

For forum purposes, I would consider him above Bruenor. Because using current versions (per forum rules) he would have both the bow and Guen.

Now, you changed that with your stipulations, so it would be a closer fight. But I consider both the bow and panther to be a part of his standard equipment (and think it would be silly to consider them not standard) so in a "by the rules" standard forum fight, I'd favor Drizzt every time.

Bruenor himself admits his skill is not near Drizzt's in Gauntlgrym, or rather agrees with another's assessment that Drizzt is on another level in terms of his prowess. Bruenor's psychotic damage soak and durability is the counter, and it's a good one, so it's hard to say who would win if it were devoid of magical help from Drizzt's toys.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I think there actaully like 20 now.

Including the Entreri spin-offs, yes. Just Drizzt, I think not just yet.

...

Anyway. The fact that you had to hinder the Companions significantly to make it fight is telling enough about power levels. Anyone one of them is worth two of the Fellowship, maybe 3 if Drizzt had all his toys. But, with your new restrictions in place (no Guen, no bow, Wulfgar gone) it's indeed a bit closer. I don't truly know, since it's a 2-on-1 at that point, and it's hard to gauge the skill of all involved.

Tolkien's works were not about power levels. I tend to think of trying to apply power levels to them in the same way as Watchmen, or Sandman, or Planetary...if you're doing it, you're missing the point. So, and this may be disappointing, but the answer at this point is "I don't know." And I think anyone saying otherwise is blindly guessing.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
yes he is. But meh. I actually lost interest in them. His new co main character is so annoying and just not interesting.

Drizzt himself has matured under Salvatore. He used to be utterly predictable and less nuanced...a clear representation of whatever emotional conflict Salvatore was writing about, and nothing else. He still projects this preachy-ness onto Drizzt sometimes, but not so heavily. Dahlia's new, and not a Companion, so it's easy to be annoyed. Personally, I like that he's had the guts to write true and lasting change into his world and his characters.

Originally posted by Digi
Yes.

No one really. Just needed a term to throw out there since he isn't tricked out magically like Drizzt.

Okay, I get what you mean.

Originally posted by Digi
For forum purposes, I would consider him above Bruenor. Because using current versions (per forum rules) he would have both the bow and Guen.

Now, you changed that with your stipulations, so it would be a closer fight. But I consider both the bow and panther to be a part of his standard equipment (and think it would be silly to consider them not standard) so in a "by the rules" standard forum fight, I'd favor Drizzt every time.

Originally posted by Digi

Bruenor himself admits his skill is not near Drizzt's in Gauntlgrym, or rather agrees with another's assessment that Drizzt is on another level in terms of his prowess.

Originally posted by Digi

Bruenor's psychotic damage soak and durability is the counter, and it's a good one, so it's hard to say who would win if it were devoid of magical help from Drizzt's toys.

I agreed. I believe there in the same elite warrior class (along with Obould and Entrie). I however agree drizzt is the more skilled fighter. His utilizes his skills more and are more central part of his style. Like you said bruenor uses his massive damage soak a lot and is the equalizer. Think Salvatore line in the orc King is perfect explanation of bruenor. “ if pwent and Drizzt slammed into eachother with enough force to make a new entity that entity would be Bruenor Battlehammer”

Originally posted by Digi

Including the Entreri spin-offs, yes. Just Drizzt, I think not just yet.

You could be right, im reall not sure, there just so many of them lol.
...

Originally posted by Digi

Anyway. The fact that you had to hinder the Companions significantly to make it fight is telling enough about power levels. Anyone one of them is worth two of the Fellowship, maybe 3 if Drizzt had all his toys. But, with your new restrictions in place (no Guen, no bow, Wulfgar gone) it's indeed a bit closer. I don't truly know, since it's a 2-on-1 at that point, and it's hard to gauge the skill of all involved.

I agree that they are better. I originally wanted to just make bruenor and drizzt against them but thought people who scream spike against the companions. Which is why I added Wulfgar. I wa spleasently surprised to fine that not the cases.

Originally posted by Digi

Tolkien's works were not about power levels. I tend to think of trying to apply power levels to them in the same way as Watchmen, or Sandman, or Planetary...if you're doing it, you're missing the point. So, and this may be disappointing, but the answer at this point is "I don't know." And I think anyone saying otherwise is blindly guessing.

Originally posted by Digi

Drizzt himself has matured under Salvatore. He used to be utterly predictable and less nuanced...a clear representation of whatever emotional conflict Salvatore was writing about, and nothing else. He still projects this preachy-ness onto Drizzt sometimes, but not so heavily. Dahlia's new, and not a Companion, so it's easy to be annoyed. Personally, I like that he's had the guts to write true and lasting change into his world and his characters.

He was kinda forced into it actually. But I know what you mean. I personally don’t like her at all. She just not interesting and she not very deep character. Still don’t understand why bruenor could not stay in the books. Personally thought he could have done a great story with the two of them. It just little annoying that he makes these changes in drizzt and then kind ajust ignores them in never winter book 2. Drizzt is very much like he was prior to the ghost king.

Thanks digi for discussing this with me. You are very knowledgeable about Drizzt and company. And I have very much enjoyed are discussion about them. I dont tend to find many people who know enough about them to really have good discussion about the characters.

New stipulations added to make fight more interesting. Drizzt does not have his bow, arrows now guen.

There are four matches in total. If one of the match ups intrigues you more then the others you make just discuss that if you wish. please try and have a real indepth discussion and remember to be respectful.

First Match: Drizzt and Bruenor vs Aragon, Borromir, Legolas and Gimli. Who wins and why?

2nd Match: Wulfgar, Bruenor and Wulfgar unarmed vs Aragon, Borromir, Legolas (knifes only) gimli in the woods.

3rd Match:Bruenor and Wulfgar vs Aragon, Borromir, Legolas and Gimli. Who wins and why?

I did count the books recently, including the Entreri stuff. 18 is ringing in my mind, but I'm only about 50-60% sure of that. It's a lot, in any case.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Thanks digi for discussing this with me. You are very knowledgeable about Drizzt and company. And I have very much enjoyed are discussion about them. I dont tend to find many people who know enough about them to really have good discussion about the characters.

Eh, not a problem. I enjoy it too, even though I cringe a little at the inclusion of Tolkien characters. Comics and certain other writers (Salvatore being one) concern themselves explicitly with power levels, so they make sense in these contexts. For others, it's an afterthought while art is created (Moore, Tolkien, etc.), or even something left purposely vague to leave it in the realm of myth, and so I think it's almost impossible to try to categorize them.

Anyway, the line I was referring to was Athrogate's, where he's talking about how Dahlia's hands are able to move entirely independently of each other, like Drizzt. He openly admits that he is not that skilled, and lumps Bruenor in with him. Bruenor agrees with the sentiment, that they use their ferocity and force but aren't as skilled, from what I remember, then they muse about whether Dahlia could beat Drizzt.

It was skill only, of course. Bruenor has other advantages, as mentioned. I'm of the mind that even in a "fair" fight (no magical baubles) Drizzt would win more often than not, but I also realize how close it is.

Originally posted by Digi
I did count the books recently, including the Entreri stuff. 18 is ringing in my mind, but I'm only about 50-60% sure of that. It's a lot, in any case.

Originally posted by Digi
Eh, not a problem. I enjoy it too, even though I cringe a little at the inclusion of Tolkien characters. Comics and certain other writers (Salvatore being one) concern themselves explicitly with power levels, so they make sense in these contexts. For others, it's an afterthought while art is created (Moore, Tolkien, etc.), or even something left purposely vague to leave it in the realm of myth, and so I think it's almost impossible to try to categorize them.

it can be i agree. I personally think you can classify certain tolkien characters but others not so much. Like Tom for one it be close to impossible to really define how powerful he is. Though i think you can get pretty good idea of how powerful people like aragon is. it harder then with Salvatore though, i agree with that completely.

Do you happen to know of any good match ups with other book based characters? I dont like putting them against comic character because it really hard to argue text against scans. Because some people can really see events different and the lack of picture makes it hard to really explain how impressive some of there feats are to people who have not read them.

Maybe putting them against some dragon lance guys.

Originally posted by Digi

Anyway, the line I was referring to was Athrogate's, where he's talking about how Dahlia's hands are able to move entirely independently of each other, like Drizzt. He openly admits that he is not that skilled, and lumps Bruenor in with him. Bruenor agrees with the sentiment, that they use their ferocity and force but aren't as skilled, from what I remember, then they muse about whether Dahlia could beat Drizzt.

Oh i know what your talking about. I re read that part not to long ago. Your actaully talking about two different scenes.

One scene is Dahlia and Jaraxle talking about how Drizzt is on another level then Athrogate. Jaraxle say something like arogath is a fine warrior. Dahlia said something like "even among drow he would be consider skillful at duel weapons but is not on the level of drizzt and relies on his strength to much". Jaraxle agrees. Bruenor actually not mentioned in that scene.

The other scene is were Arogath talks about how he not wish to face Dahlia in combat. Implying he not sure if even drizzt could beat her. Bruenor then threatens Dahlia and trying to get her emotional. Arogath generally seems worried for Bruenor. However Bruenor does not seem worried at all. Dahlia also says that Bruenor can see right through her, which unnerves her.

These scene was more to hype Dahlia up, similar to when pwent first arrived in the books. It was not an actual indication that she was better then Bruenor. It was indication she was better then arogath. Who I think is a notch below bruenor, drizzt ect.

Originally posted by Digi

It was skill only, of course. Bruenor has other advantages, as mentioned. I'm of the mind that even in a "fair" fight (no magical baubles) Drizzt would win more often than not, but I also realize how close it is.

I agree, i give drizzt slight majority. Salvatore once emailed my cousin about this fight. His words i think were quite fitting for how I saw the fight going. He said "Drizzt is the best, but I would not bet against Bruenor". I Always took it as Drizzt was the betting favorite, but Bruenor was very live underdog.

22 books

edit: Also drizzt and co rape the walkers. No comparison

Actually if you were gonna do another set... And didn't wanna do find vs dnd
Caramon, Tanis half elven and kitara or example...

You should consider Robert Jordan's books like the wheel of time as better for non dnd characters who are usually fairly powerful...

Originally posted by rotiart
Actually if you were gonna do another set... And didn't wanna do find vs dnd
Caramon, Tanis half elven and kitara or example...

You should consider Robert Jordan's books like the wheel of time as better for non dnd characters who are usually fairly powerful...

I was thinking of them as well. Do u thinkthere powerful enough to hang? We would deff have to give them superior numbers. (no raistlin though he way to uber powerful).

wheel of time could be hard, the main character can like blow up an entire keeps. But I love the ideas. And i very much like to find good match ups for the companions of the hall. Think there interesting characters that could fair well in lot of battles and bring dynamics and styles that are not common in other verses battles

Honestly I still don't think the top three dragon lance would win, unless you included raistlin or dalamar.

I'm trying to think of the fantasy series that I read. It's hard entering a vs. mindset for them.

I read a lot of Terry Brooks. Allanon would run a train on this whole fight. Most of his other characters get slaughtered though. Even the magic users are generally either scared kids or they lack a ton of great feats.

I began the DL stuff. Never got through it though...it didn't hook me like Drizzt and a few other authors. Let's see. Martin? No. Rothfuss? No. You could go to the dark side and pit them against Harry Potter characters. 😉

You might search D&D itself for other worthy characters. Outside obvious rapestomps like Elminster, there might be some good opponents.

David Gemmell work has a large pool of skilled swords and sorcery characters (Skilgannon, Rage, Dace, Decado (both versions), Druss, Bane, The Waylander... and on and on and on), even the less powerful characters in his "historical fiction" books are skilled enough to be a threat among high fantasy characters (which should give you some indication about the level of his actually fantasy characters).... plus I always like suggesting people read Gemmell because he was sooooooooooooooo much better than Salvatore in every conceivable way. If you think you might be interesting in David Gemmell... catch up on all your Salvatore books before you read anything of his work, because going back and reading Salvatore afterwards will seem like a chore. Like watching a vhs on a standard def television after seeing a blueray on a 80 inch hdtv. 🙁

Joe Ambercrombie has some formidable characters too. The Blood-nine and Whirrun, although they might be too much for Drizzt and co... maybe Bremer dan Gorst.

Hvaing read the Dark Elf Trilogy (its an excellent read btw...all should read it at some point), I can say the following with absolute certainty:

If it comes down to anything resembling cqc (close quarters combat) Drizzt solo's all...

Dude was an absolute BEAST; The Lord of Rings characters have no chance against him...

Didn't know Salvatore wrote more Drizzt books. Kinda scrapped reading Drizzt books after the ending that happened on the Ghost King (made me go Arghhhh!!!!). Kinda thought that was Salvatore's last Drizzt book. Gonna look up the titles to see if I can order em online. Would you guys recommend the new books? Or is it dissappointing? Also looking on new DnD novels to read (that or WH40k) can you guys recommend a good DnD-based book (that doesn't involve Ravenloft) I could get to pass the time?

Oh, and Drizzt would murder the Fellowship in their movie versions. Never read the book, tho. So I dunno.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Didn't know Salvatore wrote more Drizzt books. Kinda scrapped reading Drizzt books after the ending that happened on the Ghost King (made me go Arghhhh!!!!). Kinda thought that was Salvatore's last Drizzt book. Gonna look up the titles to see if I can order em online. Would you guys recommend the new books? Or is it dissappointing? Also looking on new DnD novels to read (that or WH40k) can you guys recommend a good DnD-based book (that doesn't involve Ravenloft) I could get to pass the time?

Oh, and Drizzt would murder the Fellowship in their movie versions. Never read the book, tho. So I dunno.

The next books after the ghost king is one of his best books. However the book after that is meh. It has some great scenes, but over all the book is lacking. Espcially is you dislike his new character (who I personally can't stand)

Back to topic? Team DND stomps hard.

The guys you picked for your dnd are not just good but like the best in all in all of faerun.

:-/

Originally posted by rotiart
Back to topic? Team DND stomps hard.

The guys you picked for your dnd are not just good but like the best in all in all of faerun.

:-/

Not necessarily. Up to Ghost King, there were still some characters in Faerun who would literally pwn Drizzt. Grandmaster Kane took down Artemis (who was a match for Drizzt swordsmanship-wise) with ease. Kane also ad companions who were a match to him (other than that clumsy ranger). Dunno how much better Drizzt got after Ghost King but up to that point, he was good, but not the very best.

But yeah, the fellowship guys are out of their league here. Maybe make it Legolas, Aragorn and the Witch King? :-)

Originally posted by Digi
In terms of feats, Drizzt actually has as many archery feats (and probably more) than Legolas, and also an enchanted quiver with endless lightning arrows. There's no advantage anywhere for the Fellowship, long range or otherwise.

TOAST!!!

Originally posted by Digi

You might search D&D itself for other worthy characters. Outside obvious rapestomps like Elminster, there might be some good opponents.

I heard about that guys he's supposed to be some hardcore archwizard