Battlezone Discussion: Naija boy vs Newjak. WBHulk vs FP Kuurth. Strength comparison

Originally posted by Newjak
I like how you said this stops NOW. Like you're demanding it from me.

I'm trying to prove WBH is not as strong as your claiming. You're goal is to prove it. As it stands I don't need to represent one particular character to do that.

And if I could use the full range of FPK's feats including his forward momentum feats and other abilities I would be all over that. As it stands I'm not about to use a character we both know doesn't have a huge amount of lifting feats and his best power feats involve him moving forward, which you would try to take away due to his unstoppability, to try and prove who is stronger.

It's asinine situation you're trying to put me in, and I'm not gonna let it happen. You can claim you know my intentions all you want I don't care.

So let's do it you prove WBH is so far above his piers from before. That's what you really want to prove anyways right? It shouldn't matter what feats from people I bring in. If WBH is so much stronger as you claim you should also be able to argue that those same feats are so far below him regardless of who they are from.

And I'm not gonna withdraw as it stands no terms were actually agreed upon that was the purpose of this thread after all to hammer out the details. If you want to back out be my guest.

I'm not going to, and you can bark half assed orders all you want that won't change anything.

lol, something must be wrong with you. I challenged you to a battlezone between World Breaker Hulk/Full powered Kuurth/8th day juggernaut/Thor strength gap. Your dumb ass chose to represent Full powered Kuurth. Do you think at all? You actually selected the character planning and thinking that it would be valid using his non-strength feats (i.e momentum) and "other abilities", when the discussion was based on strength specifically. Are you freaking kidding me? facepalm. If the situation is asinine then you only have your roomy skull to thank for it. You are NOT limited to lifting feats, you are limited to any feats that indicate his physical strength of which unstoppability due to his enchantment is NOT one of. This thread is not about the useless and ambiguous term "power" which u seem to want to toss in all the time and so im not taking away anything as anything other than strength would be automatically excluded from the get go.

The details of the thread were not to be hammered out as you had already accepted its premise and chosen your character; all that was to be done is know when we would start. Trying to represent a range of characters just gives you the ability to NOT need to explicitly present a POSITIVE case for a particular character based on their feats. I would instead be presenting a positive case for World Breaker Hulk and then counter arguments for as many characters as you saw fit to bring up. Thats for the versus Forum. My challenge was intended to be a straight up comparison between WBH and another character of your own freaking choosing strengthwise. Not durability wise, Not unstopabbility wise, Not "other abilities" wise but STRENGTHWISE. The terms were unequivocally contained within the challenge. You say you wont back out but are to scared to use Full powered Kuurth. Fine, then choose another one of the characters and lets get a move on. Jeez facepalm

Originally posted by Naija boy
lol, something must be wrong with you. I challenged you to a battlezone between World Breaker Hulk/Full powered Kuurth/8th day juggernaut/Thor strength gap. Your dumb ass chose to represent Full powered Kuurth. Do you think at all? You actually selected the character planning and thinking that it would be valid using his non-strength feats (i.e momentum) and "other abilities", when the discussion was based on [B]strength specifically. Are you freaking kidding me? facepalm. If the situation is asinine then you only have your roomy skull to thank for it. You are NOT limited to lifting feats, you are limited to any feats that indicate his physical strength of which unstoppability due to his enchantment is NOT one of. This thread is not about the useless and ambiguous term "power" which u seem to want to toss in all the time and so im not taking away anything as anything other than strength would be automatically excluded from the get go.

The details of the thread were not to be hammered out as you had already accepted its premise and chosen your character; all that was to be done is know when we would start. Trying to represent a range of characters just gives you the ability to NOT need to explicitly present a POSITIVE case for a particular character based on their feats. I would instead be presenting a positive case for World Breaker Hulk and then counter arguments for as many characters as you saw fit to bring up. Thats for the versus Forum. My challenge was intended to be a straight up comparison between WBH and another character of your own freaking choosing strengthwise. Not durability wise, Not unstopabbility wise, Not "other abilities" wise but STRENGTHWISE. The terms were unequivocally contained within the challenge. You say you wont back out but are to scared to use Full powered Kuurth. Fine, then choose another one of the characters and lets get a move on. Jeez facepalm [/B]

Originally posted by TheHulk
😂 Well That's Epic Ownage 😮‍💨

For one I challenged him, two I picked FPK. He gave me a list of options after I had already chosen someone.

I also chose FPK under the circumstances it would be a debate style fight. In the understanding that if naj could prove WBH could overpower and beat FPK ,a stronger version of Juggernaut, someone directly comparable to WWH,, then that would prove his case that WBH is vastly stronger than other incarnations of Hulk.

I'm the one who issued the challenge and chose my character with different impressions of what the battle was going to be. He made the thread and now he's acting like he's the one who gave me the options and issued the challenge and I'm the coward for not excepting an obvious bait trap.

I should also add in he did issue a challenge back in the one WBH thread and I said go for it but he never did anything with it.

So I'm the one who issued the challenge I picked the character before he even stated any terms and this after I had already told him to go for the BZ challenge he did earlier which he never did anything with. Yet he comes in here and makes his own claims and terms then gets to call me a coward. 🙄

The fact is if he wants to state WBH is so much stronger than any other incarnation of Hulk I think that is a fair battlezone debate myself. And the one pertinent to this discussion at hand considering that is what we are trying to prove anyways.

I will be fair and state he did mention discussing the strength gap but I figured it would be more trying to prove WBH's strength compared to how he fairs against similar opponents to other Hulks to prove that there is a significant gap.

Once again he does not get to come in here and act like this debate was set in stone and he was the final authority on the challenge I issued after he ran and punked out once already.

But just in case I'm being unfair, I'll wait and see what other people have to say about this, and by other people I mean Leo/Existere basically anyone who would possibly be a judge.

If they feel my idea of just arguing WBH's supposed vast strength increase is an unfair challenge even though I feel that is core pertinent topic to that we are trying to discuss, I'll even limit it to just Marvel characters if it would placate you some naj, I'll use either Thor or Superman in the fight.

What I'm not gonna do is get caught in a debate using a nerfed character whose best feats for showcasing my points are gonna get taken away so naj can feel good about himself.

Originally posted by Newjak
How is it epic ownage, he actually makes a couple of mistakes there.

For one I challenged him, two I picked FPK. He gave me a list of options after I had already chosen someone.

I also chose FPK under the circumstances it would be a debate style fight. In the understanding that if naj could prove WBH could overpower and beat FPK ,a stronger version of Juggernaut, someone directly comparable to WWH,, then that would prove his case that WBH is vastly stronger than other incarnations of Hulk.

I'm the one who issued the challenge and chose my character with different impressions of what the battle was going to be. He made the thread and now he's acting like he's the one who gave me the options and issued the challenge and I'm the coward for not excepting an obvious bait trap.

I should also add in he did issue a challenge back in the one WBH thread and I said go for it but he never did anything with it.

So I'm the one who issued the challenge I picked the character before he even stated any terms and this after I had already told him to go for the BZ challenge he did earlier which he never did anything with. Yet he comes in here and makes his own claims and terms then gets to call me a coward. 🙄

The fact is if he wants to state WBH is so much stronger than any other incarnation of Hulk I think that is a fair battlezone debate myself. And the one pertinent to this discussion at hand considering that is what we are trying to prove anyways.

I will be fair and state he did mention discussing the strength gap but I figured it would be more trying to prove WBH's strength compared to how he fairs against similar opponents to other Hulks to prove that there is a significant gap.

Once again he does not get to come in here and act like this debate was set in stone and he was the final authority on the challenge I issued after he ran and punked out once already.

But just in case I'm being unfair, I'll wait and see what other people have to say about this, and by other people I mean Leo/Existere basically anyone who would possibly be a judge.

If they feel my idea of just arguing WBH's supposed vast strength increase is an unfair challenge even though I feel that is core pertinent topic to that we are trying to discuss, I'll even limit it to just Marvel characters if it would placate you some naj, I'll use either Thor or Superman in the fight.

You live in Bizarro world. I especially liked the part about me copping out and running. 😂 I made this challenge first in the Hulks vs Juggernaut thread. You replied with something like

Originally posted by Newjak
Haha whatever dude Thor and Hercules as already stating were getting ready to shake the Earth of it's orbit. That alone is roughly equal to WBH's feat.

And that is all that needs to be said.

As for the rest you're just flat out wrong, and as for a battle zone and ripping my stuff to shreds. Whatever man. Go for it.

"Whatever man" and the general tone of the response made me not take this as a serious reply and I moved on. Then in the second thread you said in response to a post of mine

Originally posted by Newjak
😆
You know what man let's get this over with.

You me Battlezone. We'll see how inept I am 😛

I took this as an actual acceptance of my challenge and you then chose FP Kuurth. I still wanted to be sure you were actually accepting it as it was proposed and I then clarified what i had suggested the battlezone be about.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Heh, u cant even muster any counterarguments. Ur claims of "stupid " have gotten old. Further what i suggested we battlezone is the strength gap between 8th day Juggernaut/FP Kuurth and WBH . Or conversely we can do whats being discussed in this thread which is the strength gap between Thor and WBH. If you are down then lets do it.

And then here you clearly agreed to this

Originally posted by Newjak
Why would I make a counter argument I'm just gonna end up doing i nthe battle zone anyways 🙄

And sure we can do 8th Day/FP Kuurth is you want.

What here is a bait trap? The strength gap between Hulk and the title characters of these threads had always been the issue and thats why i explicitly mentioned what i wanted to battlezone. You agreed, and said it was fine. Heck even in this thread after in the OP i once again mentioned what it would be about you came in and said i was misrepresenting you. I then asked what you were going to be arguing exactly

Originally posted by Naija boy
"what strength gap" (implies that there is none) This was written in response to my mentioning of the strength gap between them. These are your words not mine. But anyways if you have changed your position its fine. What will you be arguing exactly?

You gave some cryptic reply and then I tried to clarify yet AGAIN

Originally posted by Naija boy
Ok so your arguing that the strength gap isnt significant/is minor?

to which you replied..

Originally posted by Newjak
Isn't Significant sounds good to me.

Hence all in line with the initial terms concerning what the battlezone was to be about. Unfortunately, Its after this simple and blatantly clear exchange that your idiocy took a hold of the thread and hasnt let go; from trying to bring in durability to unstoppability to some bafflingly mysterious other abilities.

However, since you now want to change the entire premise of the thread upon realization that you would not be able to defend yourself then fine. I tire of this farcical dancing game you want to play so I'll even agree to doing the strength gap between Wordbreaker Hulk and a set of Marvel characters roughly within the same tier or between WBH and other versions of Hulk. Lets just clarify who those characters are and get moving. Further: facepalm

Originally posted by Naija boy
You live in Bizarro world. I especially liked the part about me copping out and running. 😂 I made this challenge first in the Hulks vs Juggernaut thread. You replied with something like

"Whatever man" and the general tone of the response made me not take this as a serious reply and I moved on. Then in the second thread you said in response to a post of mine

I took this as an actual acceptance of my challenge and you then chose FP Kuurth. I still wanted to be sure you were actually accepting it as it was proposed and I then clarified what i had suggested the battlezone be about.

And then here you clearly agreed to this

What here is a bait trap? The strength gap between Hulk and the title characters of these threads had always been the issue and thats why i explicitly mentioned what i wanted to battlezone. You agreed, and said it was fine. Heck even in this thread after in the OP i once again mentioned what it would be about you came in and said i was misrepresenting you. I then asked what you were going to be arguing exactly

You gave some cryptic reply and then I tried to clarify yet AGAIN

to which you replied..

Hence all in line with the initial terms concerning what the battlezone was to be about. Unfortunately, Its after this simple and blatantly clear exchange that your idiocy took a hold of the thread and hasnt let go; from trying to bring in [B]durability to unstoppability to some bafflingly mysterious other abilities.

However, since you now want to change the entire premise of the thread upon realization that you would not be able to defend yourself then fine. I tire of this farcical dancing game you want to play so I'll even agree to doing the strength gap between Wordbreaker Hulk and a set of Marvel characters roughly within the same tier or between WBH and other versions of Hulk. Lets just clarify who those characters are and get moving. Further: facepalm [/B]

I also never agreed to how we were gonna debate this. You are the only one who said this had to be a pure test of strength feats.

What don't you understand, I don't need a list of characters to represent. I'm just going to debate that WBH is not as strong as you are making him out to be. You need to learn to comprehend statements or if you need clarifications ask me before you assume something.

I'm just not gonna use any of DC's characters to make my points.

I guess that could mean I'm representing previous versions of Hulk, but I don't really need to have a defined character or set of characters chosen in a debate about whether or not WBH is a lot stronger than his previous versions.

All I have to do is prove that WBH is not a lot stronger than his previous versions. But if you want me to have a specific character I guess I'll choose previous versions of the Hulk.

We'll let the Judges decide what's valid in the arguments.

I like how this debate is going so far 🙂

Originally posted by Starscream M
I like how this debate is going so far 🙂

EDIT: I was only able to not defend the character I was using when you decided to Handicap them. If you don't see how comparing Hulk's strength next to Juggernaut's pushing feats would show how much stronger WBH is or is not then you need to understand how to compare things.

Somebody call Juntai in. Need someone to lay down the law here.

A test of strength usually involves a comparison of strength feats and not anything else but i apologize for over estimating your intelligence. To avoid this thread going through any further hell, How about this, you can use juggernauts pushing feats as evidence of his strength if you like as well and then can represent full powered Kuurth if you like or since you are bent on shying away from proving a positive case for a character, we can debate whether WBH Hulk is alot stronger than previous Hulks.

Originally posted by Naija boy
A test of strength usually involves a comparison of strength feats and not anything else but i apologize for over estimating your intelligence. To avoid this thread going through any further hell, How about this, you can use juggernauts pushing feats as evidence of his strength if you like as well and then can represent full powered Kuurth if you like or since you are bent on shying away from proving a positive case for a character, we can debate whether WBH Hulk is alot stronger than previous Hulks.

For instance if Hulk's strength wasn't great enough to overcome Cain's forward momentum but you could somehow prove WBH could. Well then you proved he is way stronger than before. Or if WBH can overcome Juggernaut's durability that proves he is a lot stronger, cause he would need a lot more strength to do it.

I hope you can understand that.

Your claim and the style you have been using in debates is that WBH wins because he is so much stronger than what he used to be. That if anyone was close to previous version of Hulks then they must be so much weaker than WBH. That's a stance that's a debatable point. I don't need to represent a particular character to disprove that statement.

That's what I want to debate. That's what I've been wanting to debate. That's why I've be hesitant because you've been trying to set guidelines to things I don't want to do and haven't wanted to do.

Why can your brain not wrap around that concept.

But whatever at this point the arguments I'm gonna use aren't gonna change regardless of the character I use. And since you're not trying to nerf Kuurth anymore I'll go ahead and use him so you don't think I'm "shying" away.

Originally posted by Newjak
How do you think it is going?

For their strength (WBH and WWH) to compare against obstacles, they would both have to have faced the same obstacles in the first place. Hence the obstacle would be a reference point. If they havent faced the same obstacle (in this case Juggernauts unstoppability) then using his forward momentum as a reference point would be daft since the comparison in and of itself is a hypothetical. I would first have to prove how much stronger WBH is than his previous incarnation and THEN argue about whether that increase is in itself sufficient to assert that he can overcome Kuurths unstoppability. I cant use WBH overcoming Kuurths enchantment as proof of how much stronger than WWH he is because since he has never actually done it before on panel, i would have to make a case that WBH can overcome the enchantment based on his individual feats in the first place. However, for the argument to be valid those feats would already have to show that WBH was alot stronger than WWH (Granting for the sake of argument that it would take a vast increase in strength in order to stop Kuurth). Hence WBH being alot stronger than WWH is already implicit in the case against Kuurth. This is how actual logic works Newjack. Listen I minored in philosophy, I can break it down into standard form and even diagram it for you if you like.

Thus like i suggested my previous post, we should set up the debate around the point of whether WBH is significantly stronger than previous Hulks and you can try to disprove it while i support it. Fine?

Originally posted by Naija boy
For their strength (WBH and WWH) to compare against obstacles, they would both have to have faced the same obstacles in the first place. Hence the obstacle would be a reference point. If they havent faced the same obstacle (in this case Juggernauts unstoppability) then using his forward momentum as a reference point would be daft since the comparison in and of itself is a hypothetical. I would first have to prove how much stronger WBH is than his previous incarnation and THEN argue about whether that increase is in itself sufficient to assert that he can overcome Kuurths unstoppability. I cant use WBH overcoming Kuurths enchantment as proof of how much stronger than WWH he is because since he has never actually done it before on panel, i would have to make a case that WBH can overcome the enchantment based on his individual feats in the first place. However, for the argument to be valid those feats would already have to show that WBH was alot stronger than WWH (Granting for the sake of argument that it would take a vast increase in strength in order to stop Kuurth). Hence WBH being alot stronger than WWH is already implicit in the case against Kuurth. This is how actual logic works Newjack. Listen I minored in philosophy, I can break it down into standard form and even diagram it for you if you like.

Thus like i suggested my previous post, we should set up the debate around the point of whether WBH is significantly stronger than previous Hulks and you can try to disprove it while i support it. Fine?

So you actually have it backwards.

Cause I would just use the fact Juggernaut pushed WWH backwards as proof of Juggeranut's forward momentum powers, so in order to prove WBH is magnitude's stronger than Kuurth you would also have to prove WBH is margins stronger than WWH anyways. Which means you would have to feel that if WBH is margins stronger than Kuurth that WBH would also have to fair much much better than WWH did which you would have to prove.

I can draw you a diagram if you want or break it down into standard form for you to so understand. 😛

If Juggeranut pushes WWH backwards

Then WBH must be able to do much much better to prove he is magnitude's stronger then Kuurth.

And in order to do that he must be much stronger than WWH.

See the logic I hope a philosophy minor would see it there.

Either way setting up the debate around whether WBH is significantly stronger then his previous versions is exactly what I want.

And I just used that Juggeranut thing as an example to show the idea of using something other than strength to gauge strength.

So go ahead.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Thus like i suggested my previous post, we should set up the debate around the point of whether WBH is significantly stronger than previous Hulks and you can try to disprove it while i support it. Fine?

Why is there an argument about how you disprove it?

It seems that if you're both settled on arguing for/against Hulk being 'significantly stronger than his previous incarnations', you should be able to use any line of logic available.

Unless you're arguing something else, I lost interest in wading through all the back and forth.

Originally posted by Newjak
Except in order to prove WBH was in fact stronger than Kuurth you would have had to prove he is stronger than his forward momentum anyways.

So you actually have it backwards.

Cause I would just use the fact Juggernaut pushed WWH backwards as proof of Juggeranut's forward momentum powers, [B]so in order to prove WBH is magnitude's stronger than Kuurth you would also have to prove WBH is margins stronger than WWH anyways. Which means you would have to feel that if WBH is margins stronger than Kuurth that WBH would also have to fair much much better than WWH did which you would have to prove.

[/B]

No offense Newjak but you need a better grasp on logic and this post just re-enforces what I am saying. There is no shame in being wrong in this case as you are clearly formally not versed in logic but you are still wrong none the less. The quote above is just a mess of self contradiction.

Note the part of your quote I underlined, You just stated and confirmed exactly what I am saying. "In order to prove WBH is magnitudes stronger than Kuurth i would have to prove that WBH is magnitudes stronger than WWH anyways". (granting for sake of argument that he needs to be much stronger in order to break the enchantment that WWH failed to do) This is because it is implicitly required that for WBH to be considerably stronger than Kuurth forward movement, he be considerably stronger than WWH as well. WBH fairing much better than WWH did would be proved by showing the difference between he and WWH in the first place. Its not the other way round. I have to establish WBH strength level first (i.e considerably above WWH) and then argue that he is strong enough to overcome Kuurths unstoppability. Ironically, you are proving and virtually asserting my point while attempting to argue against it..smh.lol dont bother trying any diagrams. For your sake keep it simple

Anyhow im not here to give lessons of elementary logic. Since we already know the core idea of what we are arguing we are fine as it will be regarding the strength gap between Hulk and previous incarnations.

at this point, I have no idea what this debate is about anymore.

can someone just post in one short sentence what the debate is on?

is it: WBHulk is 10x stronger than WWH

^ The debate has now changed to the strength gap between WBH and his previous incarnations since Newjack backtracked on the original. He says he cant start this weekend but i guess we will begin next week.

Which previous incarnation? how much of a gap? I think these issues need to be quantified before a debate can began