Joseph Smith Jr. (Mormon dude) vs. Jesus Christ (Passion of the Christ)

This is Mortal Versions, only.

H2H, only.

We can add other mortal versions of Jesus as the thread goes.

Joseph Smith's movies come from multiple full-length movies that show he liked to wrestle and do a stick-like fighting game (people said he was really good and rarely lost). So Joseph Smith is strong and stout.

Looking at Jesus' damage soak, Jesus may win this fight by attrition.

Jesus may try to employ confusion against Joseph Smith but Joseph Smith is a Great Seer and can translate it on the fly, McClane style, thus throwing a wrench into Jesus' confusion plans.

I think Jesus still wins this due to his damage soak. I am open to ideas and persuasion. Let's hear the arguments.

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1234

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Quality thread bro.

This should be a Celebrity Death Match.

Freakin Easter dude......

Smith was an opportunistic cult leader who as you state knew how to beat people up.

VS

Some super pacifist with a heart of gold.

Oh well......Jesus turns the water in John's body into wine. Game Over. Christ Wins.

Jesus as a mortal stopped a hurricane by yelling at it.

So he yells at his fist to stop not punching Joseph's head off, and then his fist punches Joseph's head off.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Jesus as a mortal stopped a hurricane by yelling at it.

So he yells at his fist to stop not punching Joseph's head off, and then his fist punches Joseph's head off.

That makes no sense.

It doesn't have to.

He's Jesus.

Originally posted by the ninjak
Freakin Easter dude......

Smith was an opportunistic cult leader who as you state knew how to beat people up.

VS

Some super pacifist with a heart of gold.

Oh well......Jesus turns the water in John's body into wine. Game Over. Christ Wins.

It wasn't Easter when I made this thread.

And wrestling and stick fighting is not knowing how to beat people up.

Jesus was certainly a pacifist...but he has massive damage soak!

I considered using post-crisis Jesus but then he would approach the match as an immortal God making it unfair. So I had to stick to the mortal pacifist Jesus.

I could have went completely OT and used the angry rager God version, but the He's just a spirit so Joseph can't do anything to him.

The Jewish carpenter guy has mega damage soak. Dude took a massive shit stomping and still lived while on the cross. The only reason death occurred was due to the spear of Longinus.

Joe Smith just looked at some gold plates through a rock ring or something and dictated.

My money's on Jesus.

Originally posted by dadudemon
It wasn't Easter when I made this thread.

And wrestling and stick fighting is not knowing how to beat people up.

Jesus was certainly a pacifist...but he has massive damage soak!

I considered using post-crisis Jesus but then he would approach the match as an immortal God making it unfair. So I had to stick to the mortal pacifist Jesus.

I could have went completely OT and used the angry rager God version, but the He's just a spirit so Joseph can't do anything to him.

Originally posted by dadudemon

And wrestling and stick fighting is not knowing how to beat people up.

How isn't it!!!

Originally posted by NemeBro
Wrestling is one of the most prevalent and used styles/backgrounds seen in MMA, it certainly helps toward beating people up.

You are probably thinking of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Greco-Roman and free-style wrestling are not really used.

It is very hard to beat someone up with a martial art that specifically forbids beating someone. If you strike someone in wrestling, that's a penalty.

Here are the martial arts used in MMA: Muy Thai, Boxing, Kick-boxing, Judo, Karate (rare), Tae Kwon Do, and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu (probably the most common MA used in MMA matches along with boxing).

Originally posted by the ninjak
How isn't it!!!

Wrestling and stick-pull.

Covered wrestling.

This is the stick pull stuff:

YouTube video

I said stick-fighting, but it wasn't. It was stick-pull (no homo).

It's such a ridiculous thread, that it's awesome.

Ok! Let's do it seriously, and check out what these two cats bring to the table.

Joseph:
- longuer reach
- weight advantage
- aguarbly more strenght
- better skills, overall

Jesus:
- godly cardio
- able to take a punch, even two, the second on the other cheek
- live in harrid region, so deshydratation will not affect him like Joseph.

The way I see it, is that Joseph will destroy Jesus for the first 5 minutes, and then having problems with his cardio. If Jesus isn't dead after receiving such a beating, and if he's able to fight back, after 5 or 6 minutes, he got his chances.

So, it pains me to say it, as a catholic, but I think that the odds would goes to Joseph.

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
It's such a ridiculous thread, that it's awesome.

Ok! Let's do it seriously, and check out what these two cats bring to the table.

Joseph:
- longuer reach
- weight advantage
- aguarbly more strenght
- better skills, overall

Jesus:
- godly cardio
- able to take a punch, even two, the second on the other cheek
- live in harrid region, so deshydratation will not affect him like Joseph.

The way I see it, is that Joseph will destroy Jesus for the first 5 minutes, and then having problems with his cardio. If Jesus isn't dead after receiving such a beating, and if he's able to fight back, after 5 or 6 minutes, he got his chances.

So, it pains me to say it, as a catholic, but I think that the odds would goes to Joseph.

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Bravo

Well thought out, too.

But, based on your post, I would say it goes to Jesus. He pulls a Homer Simpson and takes punishment enough to wear Joseph down. Then he just has to push ol' Joe over and he wins.

Originally posted by dadudemon
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Bravo

Well thought out, too.

But, based on your post, I would say it goes to Jesus. He pulls a Homer Simpson and takes punishment enough to wear Joseph down. Then he just has to push ol' Joe over and he wins.

Nah, you can't beat a human for 5 or 6 minutes with him standing like that. However, a rope-a-dope is a possibility. Didn't think of it...

What kind of fight is this, btw? MMA? Boxe? Wrestling? Judo? ...
Jesus got a better chance at Boxe.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Greco-Roman and free-style wrestling are not really used.

Brock Lesnar
Dan Severn
Ken Shamrock (Catch Wrestling is an important aspect of Shootfighting, and yes I am grouping Catch Wrestling here because it is when you get down to it another branch of Folk Wrestling)
Chuck Liddell
Randy Couture
Mark Coleman
Matt Hughes
Cain Velasquez

Just a few men in the UFC who, to some extent, include Wrestling in their repertoire. I also don't know if you noticed, but I just named the entire friggin' UFC Hall of Fame short of Royce Gracie and Mask (Who is not a fighter).

Oh and look here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed_martial_arts#Common_disciplines

"Amateur Wrestling (including Freestyle, Greco-Roman, and American Folkstyle) gained tremendous respect due to its effectiveness in mixed martial arts competitions. Wrestling is widely studied by mixed martial artists. Wrestling is also credited for conferring an emphasis on conditioning for explosive movement and stamina, both of which are critical in competitive mixed martial arts. It is known for excellent takedowns, particularly against the legs."

Well, look at that.

Seriously. Wrestling is a style you can choose from in the friggin' UFC videogames.

I don't know how you can actually type with a straight face that Wrestling is "not really used" in MMA.

And you're being deliberately obtuse. You do realise that amateur wrestling is performed on a padded mat for a reason, right? You do realise that being thrown on your head when on, say, concrete, can be fatal, right? Or that it can be used to manipulate your opponent to advantageous positions to punch their face in, right? I mean, sure, it wouldn't be as easy or as feasible without cross training in another martial art like boxing, and modifying the wrestling to take advantage of strikes, but it provides an advantage nontheless, which isn't even taking into account the conditioning required.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Brock Lesnar
Dan Severn
Ken Shamrock (Catch Wrestling is an important aspect of Shootfighting, and yes I am grouping Catch Wrestling here because it is when you get down to it another branch of Folk Wrestling)
Chuck Liddell
Randy Couture
Mark Coleman
Matt Hughes
Cain Velasquez

None of them use greco-roman or freestyle wrestling in the manner I have alluded to.

Too bad. It was a nice try on your part, though.

Additionally, if I meant a different type of wrestling, I would have clarified. Since I referenced the two Olympic sports that have specific rules (the type that JS adhered to) Thanks for playing. 🙂

Originally posted by NemeBro
Just a few men in the UFC who, to some extent, include Wrestling in their repertoire. I also don't know if you noticed, but I just named the entire friggin' UFC Hall of Fame short of Royce Gracie and Mask (Who is not a fighter).

You mean you wasted your time, right?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Oh and look here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed_martial_arts#Common_disciplines

"Amateur Wrestling (including Freestyle, Greco-Roman, and American Folkstyle) gained tremendous respect due to its effectiveness in mixed martial arts competitions. Wrestling is widely studied by mixed martial artists. Wrestling is also credited for conferring an emphasis on conditioning for explosive movement and stamina, both of which are critical in competitive mixed martial arts. It is known for excellent takedowns, particularly against the legs."

Well, look at that.

I can easily cite the following:

"Note: The styles listed on this page are those that are not submission based."

http://www.mma-training.com/wrestling/

The styles used by JS were...wait for it: submission based.

Different approach to wrestling altogether.

Of course, you knew that, but were saving face because your pride took a strike.

I can easily claim that any and all "wrestling" used in MMA is actually Jiu Jitsu and Judo and justify it with the actual movements and grapples used. Why? Because you would be hard pressed to find someone wrestling like it was a collegiate or Olympic match. That's a quick way to get your *ss kicked in a high-level MMA fight.

Hi, Nemebro, I used to be an MMA fighter. 🙂

Originally posted by NemeBro
Seriously. Wrestling is a style you can choose from in the friggin' UFC videogames.

I don't know how you can actually type with a straight face that Wrestling is "not really used" in MMA.

And you're being deliberately obtuse. You do realise that amateur wrestling is performed on a padded mat for a reason, right? You do realise that being thrown on your head when on, say, concrete, can be fatal, right? Or that it can be used to manipulate your opponent to advantageous positions to punch their face in, right? I mean, sure, it wouldn't be as easy or as feasible without cross training in another martial art like boxing, and modifying the wrestling to take advantage of strikes, but it provides an advantage nontheless, which isn't even taking into account the conditioning required.

Since I quite clearly clarified which styles, you should automatically assume the approach is NOT "takedown" based, but submission based.

Can you imagine a person claiming to be a Christian Prophet using a suplex against a 17-year-old boy? How well would that go down with his followers?

I guess you didn't think out your long diatribe too well, did you. 🙂

> Claims Greco-Roman and Freestyle Wrestling
> Posts a link that clearly states that Greco-Roman and Freestyle Wrestling are widely used in the MMA.

Are you serious, or trolling?

Originally posted by NemeBro
> Claims Greco-Roman and Freestyle Wrestling

>Nemebro claims "wrestling" and I clarify Greco-Roman and Free Style. I then further clarify a non "destroy your opponent" rule based wrestling system, not the MMA. NemeBro ignores that point.

Originally posted by NemeBro
> Posts a link that clearly states that Greco-Roman and Freestyle Wrestling are widely used in the MMA.

>dadudemon clearly posts a link that clarifies that those styles are not submission based for obvious reasons. Derp.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Are you serious, or trolling?

Are you serious? You honestly did not understand what I meant when I said this:

"It is very hard to beat someone up with a martial art that specifically forbids beating someone. If you strike someone in wrestling, that's a penalty."

But, go ahead, go to a collegiate match and show them your fancy "Brock Lesner" wrestling moves. Lemme know if the ref thinks they are the same thing via his penalties.

🙂

Let's put some perspective into the bullsh*t you have been trying to pass off:

Here's Brock Lesnar Wrestling:

YouTube video

Now here he is using wrestling techniques in an MMA match:

YouTube video

If you cannot see the difference between MMA based wrestling and rule based Olympic styles, Greco-Roman and Freestyle, you're either and idiot, trying to save face because you spoke ignorantly, or trolling.

Now what was your original argument? Do you even remember?

🙂

I said this:

"And wrestling...is not knowing how to beat people up."

You responded with:

"Wrestling is one of the most prevalent and used styles/backgrounds seen in MMA, it certainly helps toward beating people up."

So I responded with:

"You are probably thinking of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Greco-Roman and free-style wrestling are not really used."

And I was inb4 you said, "but it is used in actual MMA fights!" because I preempted that with this:

"It is very hard to beat someone up with a martial art that specifically forbids beating someone. If you strike someone in wrestling, that's a penalty."

Now why would I make that clarification?

That's right: this is about Joe Smith wrestling back in the day.

Now would Joe Smith be doing arm-bars, joint locks, and choke outs in a friendly wrestling match?

Go ahead...tell me.

Additionally, Olympic and NCAA based Greco-Roman and Freestyle wrestling are NOT the types of wrestling employed in an MMA match. I even posted a cool website's clarification for what I meant by that: "Note: The styles listed on this page are those that are not submission based."

Now wait...why would the website make that clarification? Oh, that's right...you'd get disqualified.

"...striking your opponent is never legal."

"Similarly, you're not allowed to use the submission holds and chokes that are part of jujitsu and mixed martial arts competition. Only moves that control but don't hurt or damage your opponent are allowed. Other moves result in a penalty, ranging from a warning to disqualification."

"Some holds aren't illegal in wrestling but can put a body in a position that risks serious injury. An arm bar, for example, might flip an opponent on his back, and if the opponent is stuck in this position, he runs the risk of dislocating his shoulder or breaking his arm. In such cases, the referee will stop the action even though the move technically is legal. No penalty is assessed and action resumes from an official starting position."

"The takedown is a standard move in wrestling in which one competitor throws the other to the ground and establishes control. When you throw or sweep an opponent in wrestling, you are required to go to the mat with him. If you remain upright, the takedown becomes a "body slam." This is an illegal move and will result in a penalty."

http://www.livestrong.com/article/464676-rules-for-wrestling-moves/

Now, please kindly enlighten me as to how MMA based wrestling is relevant to the light-hearted barnyard B.S. that ol' Joe used with his friends?

Additionally, I would posit that a majority of "wrestling" is more Jiu Jitsu than it is Greco-Roman wrestling or freestyle. Mostly because those other two types of wrestling are taught what NOT to do that you can do in BJJ (submission holds, armbars, joint locks, and working your opponent into such moves...not the stuff of GR or FS wrestling).

Only plenty of the moves done in even collegiate, rules-based wrestling can be devastating when not performed on a mat (Or even performed on one, during practice I nearly blacked out when I was thrown on my head).

The styles not being submission-based means... Well nothing. They are used in MMA to maintain control and perform takedowns, primarily.

I never brought up striking, you are straw-manning my position and only discrediting your position by continuously harping on about something I never addressed because I was never speaking of it in the first place.

The bottom line is that you are under the impression that collegiate wrestling has no applications in an IRL fight (Am I understanding you?). Which is wrong, as if a fight enters closer than striking distance (Very possible), someone who is a skilled wrestler can take advantage of that.

You assertion that wrestling when applied to MMA as compared to actual wrestling tournaments is as obvious as it is irrelevant. The same is true of many martial arts when applied to MMA, such as people with boxing backgrounds training to incorporate the possibility of kicks, shoots, or grapples into their stance, so that they may defend against them. The entire purpose of MMA is to take different styles and modify/combine them to achieve a sort of "perfection" as a fighter. That is just why your assertion is obvious, though. It is irrelevant because, even though a "mere" wrestler won't be as complete a fighter as an MMA fighter, it is still an advantage over someone who isn't trained at all, like Jesus.

Now I will admit that my original post's premise didn't really include this much detail or explanation, but frankly I didn't believe it was necessary, I thought you would understand what I meant (Or at least reach that conclusion on your own).

You are playing a semantics game with the "beat somebody up" thing. There are few people who don't know how to, to some extent, strike someone. Will they be as efficient as a boxer, kickboxer, or muay thai practitioner? No, but they still could. We can assume that Joe Smith to some extent knows how to hit someone, and his wrestling provides him with a h2h advantage Jesus lacks, along with (I assume, I admittedly don't know shit about the guy personally) a conditioned physique (Wrestlers typically are very well physically conditioned, even my fat ass back in the day could run a few miles without stopping, and outperform most of my school in stamina (Albeit by my team's standards, I was still pretty unfit) , though not anymore 🙁 ). Jesus on the other hand, is probably still reasonably strong and conditioned as a carpenter, but I doubt it would be to the extent of a wrestler (Though I could be wrong).

dadudemon, your site deliberately and clearly states that Greco-Roman and Freestyle are used frequently, for their takedowns and shit. You can't actually post that as proof while simultaneously trying to use it as evidence that they are not types of wrestling used in MMA.

Also... Are you mad? 😬 Why are you mad? I can usually tell when you are being your douchey, jokey, vaguely trollish self, but you seem legitimately angry right now.