Originally posted by Q99
Even when grown, Etrigan was able to slap him down pretty easily. Unless he's got some feats I don't know of, I'd think Cheetah'd be stronger too.(Remember, Cheetah's strong enough to take down Wonder Woman and Superman without any upgrades!)
Congorilla is cooler than anyone who's called Congorilla has any right to be, granted 🙂
Originally posted by abhilegend
That was male cheetah and most probably PIS seeing how manhunter oneshotted him later.
MaleCheetah has the exact same powers as Female (in fact, that's precisely why he has powers- he stole hers. And then she got them back the same way), and it's not PIS when, y'know, Cheetah is the archvillain of and a major physical threat to someone who often goes toe-to-toe with Supes and other similar level people.
Martian Manhunter one-shotting Cheetah isn't completely unreasonable, though a bit low-end for Cheetah, Cheetahs are better on offense than defense. They can normally take a *few* hits from herald levels but they aren't tanks on the same level as WW, MM, Supes, etc.. Very offense-oriented in short. Cheetah's got consistent high-power showings (and a couple PIS showings from writers in different books who don't realize Cheetah's a deity and not just someone with cat powers, but really, the high powers do outnumber the low).
Originally posted by Q99
Congorilla is cooler than anyone who's called Congorilla has any right to be, granted 🙂MaleCheetah has the exact same powers as Female (in fact, that's precisely why he has powers- he stole hers. And then she got them back the same way), and it's not PIS when, y'know, Cheetah is the archvillain of and a major physical threat to someone who often goes toe-to-toe with Supes and other similar level people.
Martian Manhunter one-shotting Cheetah isn't completely unreasonable, though a bit low-end for Cheetah, Cheetahs are better on offense than defense. They can normally take a *few* hits from herald levels but they aren't tanks on the same level as WW, MM, Supes, etc.. Very offense-oriented in short. Cheetah's got consistent high-power showings (and a couple PIS showings from writers in different books who don't realize Cheetah's a deity and not just someone with cat powers, but really, the high powers do outnumber the low).
So, cheetah choking superman out isn't PIS? Tell me all these high end showings of cheetah. Captain nazi was choking out black adam while he regularly gets beat by captain marvel junior. Superman couldn't wrench open cheetah's tail or use heat vision to burn him? That was a prime example of PIS. The same cheetah got beat by wonder woman in few panels.
BTW your mighty male cheetah
Tell me about these high showings of cheetah which justifies male cheetah choking superman out.
That is pretty impressive (and you're right, I've seen it, but only for the first time 3 days ago, luckily enough ^^).
Still, I don't think it's beyond Wonder Woman/Donna Troy/etc. strength.
So, when did female cheetah beat superman? That's a poor example of ABC logic.
They have the *exact* same power transfered between people, and we even saw between people they were equal when Barbara had another god temporarily grant her her old level and they fought. That's not ABC logic when talking about the level of power.
So, cheetah choking superman out isn't PIS? Tell me all these high end showings of cheetah. Captain nazi was choking out black adam while he regularly gets beat by captain marvel junior. Superman couldn't wrench open cheetah's tail or use heat vision to burn him? That was a prime example of PIS. The same cheetah got beat by wonder woman in few panels.
Like I said, Cheetah's very offense oriented. That's actually pretty normal- Cheetah does a lot of damage fast, but once WW actually starts hitting back tends not to last long. Female Cheetah's been taken out in just a few hits by Diana, and she's not only beat her but done so in one-sided battles at times.
WW's been grappled by that tail before too and it's not easy to break free of. Hard to get a good grip when it's around your neck and all, and Cheetah was pounding on him at the same time.
And no, Superman couldn't use heat vision unless he can turn his head 180. Cheetah made sure to stay behind him, remember?
It wasn't PIS, it was an ambush and smart fighting. Cheetah rushes Superman (using the Cheetah god's supernatural stealth to get close enough unnoticed), attacks before he knows what's going on, from behind, and keeps attacking until Superman is down, aided by Superman's weakness to magic.
In a fair fight, Superman would win. Cheetah made sure it wasn't a fair fight.
Originally posted by Q99
That is pretty impressive (and you're right, I've seen it, but only for the first time 3 days ago, luckily enough ^^).Still, I don't think it's beyond Wonder Woman/Donna Troy/etc. strength.
They have the *exact* same power transfered between people, and we even saw between people they were equal when Barbara had another god temporarily grant her her old level and they fought. That's not ABC logic when talking about the level of power.
Like I said, Cheetah's very offense oriented. That's actually pretty normal- Cheetah does a lot of damage fast, but once WW actually starts hitting back tends not to last long. Female Cheetah's been taken out in just a few hits by Diana, and she's not only beat her but done so in one-sided battles at times.
WW's been grappled by that tail before too and it's not easy to break free of. Hard to get a good grip when it's around your neck and all, and Cheetah was pounding on him at the same time.
And no, Superman couldn't use heat vision unless he can turn his head 180. Cheetah made sure to stay behind him, remember?
It wasn't PIS, it was an ambush and smart fighting. Cheetah rushes Superman (using the Cheetah god's supernatural stealth to get close enough unnoticed), attacks before he knows what's going on, from behind, and keeps attacking until Superman is down, aided by Superman's weakness to magic.
In a fair fight, Superman would win. Cheetah made sure it wasn't a fair fight.
Cheetah is no where near as strong as diana or captain marvel as that comic suggests. So cheetah overpowers diana in strength and chokes her out?
Except superman is far stronger than wonder woman.
Superman can hold his breath for a long time and cheetah in the last panel was in front of superman taunting him when superman with both of his hands can't wrench open his tail.
That is clear PIS. All cheetah did for offence was two punches and a scratch by his claws and then choked superman out.
In a fair fight superman would oneshot his ass like j'onn did.
I was talking about cheetah being enemy of wonder woman who fights superman.Cheetah is no where near as strong as diana or captain marvel as that comic suggests. So cheetah overpowers diana in strength and chokes her out?
She's gotten into tug-of-wars with Diana on equal terms. So while not *stronger*, definitely *about as strong*.
And Sebastian-Cheetah didn't overpower Superman. He got a better grip and kept Superman off-balance after inflicting some heavy hits. It was an unfair ambush.
Except superman is far stronger than wonder woman.
*Looks at their fights* Whatever you say, champ. Close enough that she can handle an enraged Superman in a fight on multiple occasions.
Superman can hold his breath for a long time
Remember when he was just punched and startled and may not be holding his breath at all when it grabbed him?
Originally posted by Q99
She's gotten into tug-of-wars with Diana on equal terms. So while not *stronger*, definitely *about as strong*.And Sebastian-Cheetah didn't overpower Superman. He got a better grip and kept Superman off-balance after inflicting some heavy hits. It was an unfair ambush.
*Looks at their fights* Whatever you say, champ. Close enough that she can handle an enraged Superman in a fight on multiple occasions.
Remember when he was just punched and startled and may not be holding his breath at all when it grabbed him?
Yeah when someone fails to pry open your hands from his throat with both of his hands while you choke him out is overpowering him. What, two punches and a scratch are so devastating that he was unable to do anything?
Save for being mindcontrolled most of the time? I remember superman casually backhanding and catching her punch without any problem the one time he was in right mind. Feel free to post her strength feats.
Speculation at its best. Superman knocked out Mon-El while suffocating and nearly blacking out but he obviously can't pry open cheetah's tail with both of his hands. It was PIS clear and simple.
Whoa, does Congorilla have a limit on how big/strong he can get? He's still have the *hitting* problem, but still.
---
Cheetah doing the exact same choke thing Sebastian Cheetah did (WW didn't break free, Cheetah proceed to throw her.
And here's: the tug-of-war.
Much more recent, during Donna's stint as WW, Cheetah can stop her in her tracks too.
Save for being mindcontrolled most of the time?
Because being made to view someone as an enemy and not hold back at all totally lowers strength, am I right?
Because that's explicitly all Max did. Heck, he even used his powers in combination better than normal.
What, two punches and a scratch are so devastating that he was unable to do anything?
Captain Marvel's pulled the same thing, and he didn't follow it up with a choke. Heck, Barda did too, two blasts from her mega rod.
Yea, if you sucker punch someone and get them by surprise, they don't do as well as if they actually are prepared to take a hit. He got his head a bit rattled. And yea, if he'd have time to do anything he would've, but the whole thing didn't take long at all (and yes, Cheetah has beaten Wondy that fast too. There was a case where a somewhat-tired Diana got jumped by Cheetah in an alley, *Leap*, skip to next page and the fight's already over).
I remember superman casually backhanding and catching her punch without any problem the one time he was in right mind.
And then I remember her hitting back after those hits did nothing, knocking him back into a mountain too, and then having to use a distraction because he couldn't get past her.. How nice of you to forget the other half of the For Tomorrow fight.
Or have you not read the whole fight and just a few scans from it?
Going by For Tomorrow, if neither is going all out, they'll hit each other back and forth and neither will be hurt- not just Superman but Wondy as well. She was totally unharmed by his punches.
Going by Sacrifice, if they are going all out, they'll both suffer major injury in short order and the advantage will go back and forth and it's a generally brutal affair.
It amazes me the hoops people'll jump through to not acknowledge two characters are a close match... when they fight all the time and it's regularly shown to be a close match.
Originally posted by Q99
Whoa, does Congorilla have a limit on how big/strong he can get? He's still have the *hitting* problem, but still.---
Cheetah doing the exact same choke thing Sebastian Cheetah did (WW didn't break free, Cheetah proceed to throw her.
And here's: the tug-of-war.
Much more recent, during Donna's stint as WW, Cheetah can stop her in her tracks too.
Because being made to view someone as an enemy and not hold back at all totally lowers strength, am I right?
Because that's explicitly all Max did. Heck, he even used his powers in combination better than normal.
Captain Marvel's pulled the same thing, and he didn't follow it up with a choke. Heck, Barda did too, two blasts from her mega rod.
Yea, if you sucker punch someone and get them by surprise, they don't do as well as if they actually are prepared to take a hit. He got his head a bit rattled. And yea, if he'd have time to do anything he would've, but the whole thing didn't take long at all (and yes, Cheetah has beaten Wondy that fast too. There was a case where a somewhat-tired Diana got jumped by Cheetah in an alley, *Leap*, skip to next page and the fight's already over).
And then I remember her hitting back after those hits did nothing, knocking him back into a mountain too, and then having to use a distraction because he couldn't get past her.. How nice of you to forget the other half of the For Tomorrow fight.
Or have you not read the whole fight and just a few scans from it?
Going by For Tomorrow, if neither is going all out, they'll hit each other back and forth and neither will be hurt- not just Superman but Wondy as well. She was totally unharmed by his punches.
Going by Sacrifice, if they are going all out, they'll both suffer major injury in short order and the advantage will go back and forth and it's a generally brutal affair.
It amazes me the hoops people'll jump through to not acknowledge two characters are a close match... when they fight all the time and it's regularly shown to be a close match.
Because seeing a 8 foot monster instead of a slender woman makes you miss your hits. In sacrifice save of breaking her bones like a twig, he punched her only once and that koed her.
By a specific magical lightning that bypassed his aura and unlike cheetah, cap is always shown as a peer of superman. To a far weaker superman.
Again wonder woman isn't superman.
Because he didn't want to fight her. Diana was ready to kill superman (knife to the back of head which superman caught). He was caught unaware of that kick. LOL at not getting past her, when she denied to move away from the machine, he easily slapped her away. He only made that excuse since the fortress was going to self-destruct not because he can't get past her.
Sacrifice showed that he can break her bones like a twig and knock out in a single punch if it lands. It also showed that somehow getting punched from sun to earth by a guy who later was breaking bones by applying pressure doesn't even make you bleed.
Except their recent "battle" in FC 6.
