Jacare (Souza) vs. Roger (Gracie)

This was at the 2004 Mudials Absolute Finals. here are the key issues...

First, Jacare was up on points before the armbar
Second, Roger locked in a armbar and dislocated and tore ligaments on Jacare. As you can see he was unable to use or raise in the arm.
Third, Jacare then proceeds to run away and sometimes out of bounds for the final 2 minutes.

So here are the issues and two sides.. which do you fall under

Jacare's:

It was his choice to not tap and let his elbow get broken. He was winning that fight up till that point. He's a black belt in JJ and he earned the right not to tap. As far as the running... he stretched the rules with his running but the ref never warned him so he can't be blamed for the ref's failure.

Roger's

The goal of these events is to put your opponent in a position where he can't continue (break something or choke somebody out). People have a choice to tap before those things happen, but a tap isn't the goal of these events. It's to win my rendering your opponent defeated an unable to fight. Roger DID that. The ref made numerous mistakes that robbed Roger.. First, once it was locked in.. many fights are stopped by the ref whether there is a tap or not. It clearly was locked in as he destroyed his elbow for months. Second ref mistake was not calling the doctor over when his arm was clearly hurt.. who then would've stopped the fight. Third mistake was not DQing Jacare for breaking two rules.. first evading and running and the third not engaging. You seem Jacare do this multiple times and never received one warning.

So the question is and this has been debated by countless BJJ fans and players... Who actually won that fight.. Roger or Jacare... Here is the video decide for yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUYwlxHjkMA

get this shit outta here

awww is somebody mad?

I'm actually waiting on people who understand these things..

This is in the wrong forum. You might want to ask to have it moved to the sports forum.

It is, but I also have friends on this forum and people who like MMA and JJ as a sport. Hence moving it here.

I like the sport too, but this is the comic book vs forum.

It is the wrong forum.

Thank you captain obvious. Are you a mod and I didn't know it? Spare me the lecture, and if you have no comment or care, good for you.

Roger sucks so it's hard for me to say he should have got the nod, eventhough he should have got the nod.

Roger sucks BWAHAHAHA... He's only one of the greatest BJJ practioners of all time....

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Roger sucks BWAHAHAHA... He's only one of the greatest BJJ practioners of all time....

I tend to use the term "suck" loosely.....For the most part I apply it to any fighter i don't like regardless of skill or pedigree. So yes, Roger sucks and I was quite happy to see when King Mo Knocked him the **** out. That was a good day.

I can say, I wasn't happy about that at all. At least you feel like Roger won the fight in queston 🙂

love mma

did u see jacare's last fight kt

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I can say, I wasn't happy about that at all. At least you feel like Roger won the fight in queston 🙂

Originally posted by guy222
love mma

did u see jacare's last fight kt

hey buddy, I did indeed, and much like the Roger fight, I was disappointed. He'll be back though. Did you watch the video? Who do you think won?

Jacare won.

Roger would beat him now in grappling.

Jacare would beat him in mma, if they were in the same weight class.

How do you figure Jacare won though Mindset... Shouldn't the ref have stopped the fight when it was locked in or at least called over the doctur one it was clear his arm had been mangled? To say nothing of the blatant rule breaking by Jacare and literally running away at times.

No, the ref should stop the fight if Jacare tapped, he didn't.

If Roger didn't want Jacare to evade he should have stopped him.

Jacare won on points.

Ummm ref's stop the fights all the time before the tap... If they see something is locked in they can stop it and have done so. The ref can also call over a doctor if he feels somebody is injured and could get hurt worse.. he didn't do that and couldv'e. There are also rules against evading and refusing to engage.. Jacare CLEARLY did both those things, in fact, at one point he ran OUT OF BOUNDS.. a clear violation. He did so multiple times.. which could warrant a DQ

And refs don't stop fights all the time before the tap...Exactly, they can stop it, it's a judgement call. Coulda, woulda, shoulda, it didn't happen. Who has been DQ'd for going out of bounds before?

Jacare won, get over it.