Originally posted by Bentley
I disagree, but low herald is a maybe. Consider that Magneto who is vastly more versatile and powerful than Geo-Force is the quintessential low-herald.Beh, he sucked and died like a chump, even Super Boy was better against DD, and he was also better than Achilles while we are at it.
WW is obviously stronger than Gladiator, but Achilles stalemating her is one of his, if not his highest showing. Also WW can be working in less than her full-power in a random issue, Thor has been bested by lesser foes quite often but it doesn't mean I think Tutinax stomps Silver Surfer, characters can job to hype the newcomers.
I agree that Achilles might beat Gladiator, but I also know for a fact that Kallark has superior strength feats -planet buster- and superior speed feats, I cannot probably ignore that either.
magneto could never survive the things geo force survived, geo force feats of strength durability and his terakinesis put his easily at the low herald category, i got the feeling you didnt read much with geo force.
superboy got his ass kicked like a step child, achilles at the very least landed a good shot that effected doomsday, achilles actually did better than superboy his problem was that he got too cocky and was talking trash while doomsday was beating on him.
it is achilles highest showing however how many showings does he got in the first place? his only bad showing is going down to doomsday like that, but then again he got feats of stalemating wonder woman, one shotting eradicator, and stalemating geo force, look at his fight with geo force he survived tons of earth and stones bashed into him, taking huge pieces of buildings and bach geo force with them give respect to both characters, no shame in such a display.
oh come on claiming wonder woman was working at less levels? i just hate that argument seriously, when ever people dont like some showing they go "well he/she was holding back", it was never stated she held anything back and she didnt have any reason to hold back read the stroy and understand that under those circumstances she had no reason to not try her best, she couldnt even hit him at some point so she had to step up with her gear, i dont like back seat modding and i am not trying to do so but seriously i think there should be a rule stating when a feat is discussed if it wasnt stated that the character was holding back or working under 100% of their abilities people cant just go around saying " i think she wasnt serious she was just playing".
again with this planet buster thing? that looked more like an astroid, how large was that planet? can you tell me? or we see is gladiator busting some rock in space.
achilles has the better fighting speed feats simply by not only being able to match wonder woman but also the fact she had trouble at first hitting him that alone tells you about his speed, streangth feats? lifting buildings like toys and smashing geo force with them is a good strength feat dont you think? rip out chunks of ground the size of a building and smack geo force with that is also good strength feat, as i said he doesnt have many feats at all just several so we can only meassure his performance by the fights he had which are very very few.
and before you say well who said if he manage to fight wonder woman he is in the same speed department? deathstroke was able to fight flash is it the same? no its not the same, deathstroke by the majority showings of his career presented inferior speed than flash , deathstroke by clear majority of his feats has enhanced speed at best, flash on the other hand i dont need to explain you how fast the flash is right? good, now achilles doesnt have speed feats yet to contredict the fact he can match wonder woman and her level by speed, therefor his showing against her is valid indeed unless we get 100 more feats of him getting bested by far inferior characters and thats where you can debate it wasnt the normal for him, until then everything is valid.
oh nevermind i found it , that wasnt achilles it was Aristides Demetrios also named olympian there he is
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympian_(comics)
the olympian achilles discussed in this thread is this guy
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Achilles_Warkiller_(New_Earth)
Originally posted by red sabre
[B]magneto could never survive the things geo force survived, geo force feats of strength durability and his terakinesis put his easily at the low herald category, i got the feeling you didnt read much with geo force.
Magneto survived a blast from Galactus and can open wormholes. I don't really like Erick, though, so I don't want to get in an argument over his feats.
Originally posted by red sabre
[B]superboy got his ass kicked like a step child, achilles at the very least landed a good shot that effected doomsday, achilles actually did better than superboy his problem was that he got too cocky and was talking trash while doomsday was beating on him..
I didn't get that impression from both fights, but I'll gladly go reread them later to confirm.
Originally posted by red sabre
[B]it is achilles highest showing however how many showings does he got in the first place? his only bad showing is going down to doomsday like that, but then again he got feats of stalemating wonder woman, one shotting eradicator, and stalemating geo force, look at his fight with geo force he survived tons of earth and stones bashed into him, taking huge pieces of buildings and bach geo force with them give respect to both characters, no shame in such a display.
All of which could be replicated by a huge number of herald level characters, if not most of them. Achilles isn't weak, but barring his fight with Wonder Woman he has a very average record.
Originally posted by red sabre
[B]oh come on claiming wonder woman was working at less levels? i just hate that argument seriously, when ever people dont like some showing they go "well he/she was holding back", it was never stated she held anything back and she didnt have any reason to hold back read the stroy and understand that under those circumstances she had no reason to not try her best, she couldnt even hit him at some point so she had to step up with her gear, i dont like back seat modding and i am not trying to do so but seriously i think there should be a rule stating when a feat is discussed if it wasnt stated that the character was holding back or working under 100% of their abilities people cant just go around saying " i think she wasnt serious she was just playing".
It would be helpful if you posted the scans from his fight or if you gave me the issue number. I love D-listers but no matter how you put it or which rules you want to apply it's always difficult to argue with just a handful of feats, and trust me, not assuming full-power is something that helps 95% of the time, and it's more worthwhile to throw the towel in that direction in the remaining 5% if only to get an unbiased judgement.