KMC Mid-Herald Championship #2

Might as well get my vote in too. I'm going with Smurph/Existere. Overall I feel he presented his case better, and I really couldn't see Mags doing as well against Surfer as Cable did.

Although Leo exposed the folly of some of the tp arguments Smurph was making, it was still impressive for Emma's shields to be barely holding against Cable's passive tp field, even without Cerebra. Sure, Magneto can block Emma's tp but IMO that's not as impressive as her struggling to keep his tp field out when it was affecting the whole world at once and not even concentrated on her.

Also part of Erik's tp defense comes from his helmet which Cable would probably be able to destroy/remove with his powers, thus making the tp assault easier. I also agree with the part about Cable having finer control over his tk and matter manipulation.

It would be a good fight but in the end I think Cable wins.

So sorry about holding this up, guys. Family decided to arrive unannounced from out of town so I've been juggling being a good brother/uncle and being a nerd. 😛

Anyway, I've got to say, this is the toughest match I've had to judge yet, both in terms of characters and the debaters handling them. Magneto and Cable are both highly impressive and versatile beings with loads of showings and feats to go with them, and Leo and Existere are two of the best debaters KMC has.

To me, this match boiled down to electromagnetism versus telekinesis and the applications and scope of power each possess. Telepathy sort of became a moot point to me due to Magneto's helmet as well as his mental resistance feats; personally I don't think Cable would be able to destroy or otherwise remove Mags' helmet and overpower his mind for a win.

But the level of sub-atomic manipulation and scale Cable is working on in his "God" mode is another story via telekinesis. I feel that Cable's TK is strong enough to counter Erik's magnetic manipulation (as well as contest control over his own body) and his overt power is likewise enough to best Erik, albeit in a difficult manner.

To that end, I'm voting Existere, but God damn it, Leo, you made it hard as hell.

....not like that. sneer

Alright so wow this was a toughie. I went back on forth on this a bunch of times. I believe cable is the more powerful character but the protracted TP discussion really did not do him too many favours in this case as I believe Leo presented a better case in that regard.

On the other hand I was not really convinced of what magneto was going to be able to do to harm cable and his schtick as the master of magnetism really did not automatically make me think he could easily manipulate cables metal arm or blood and I found many of such suggestions fantastical and somewhat of a stretch. From what was displayed, cables tk appe ared to be his stronger attribute and quite frankly looked to be able to at the very least counter mags attempted manipulations.

In general though I believe leo presented a great case i was still left thinking that magneto would be largely on the defensive end for a bulk of the fight both physically and psionically so I'm going with SMURPH/EXISTERE. If in addition to all his magnificent defence I had perceived a concrete and effective offensive strategy against cable I would have probably gone the other way.

I know my vote is not needed but I'm giving it anyway.

I'm voting Smurph. Not really because I want to, but because Leo, IMO, got distracted in trying to prove that TP was useless (it is - especially if he can keep the helmet on) and that he can out-power Cable (he can't) instead of bringing up every single piece of evidence - of which there is a lot - stating that all psionic energy in the MU runs through electro-magnetic fields (starting with Magneto and using other sources - ie: Iron Man, as evidence).

What does it matter how powerful Cable is if he can't bring all that power to bear?

With that said, I have to give it to Smurph because of the TK alone. I don't buy a lot of the TP arguments or at least as solidly as you portray them. But I do agree with the fact that Cable's overall more powerful with his TK than Magneto is with his Magnetism (control over everything > control over metal).

Well apparently I'm wrong. 😮

Grats Smurph. I'd say you have a comfortable hold on the division now. And I may need to reassess my estimation of Jesus-Cable. You've been stomping some strong debaters with strong combatants.

c'est la vie. i knew (in fact told digi) that beating cable with mags was a long shot. ftr i also think cable is the more powerful of the 2 and is, imo, the most powerful character that can still fit in this tier. i applauded smurph's choice when he first picked him. anyway, i obviously disagree with some of the assessments above, but since it was 4-1 against, maybe i'm wrong. i had another character in mind before i chose mags that would have been a much better match-up powerwise. so, i'll see if anyone else wants to take a crack at cable and if not, maybe i'll take said character next time....

congrats smurph. the title is yours. for the moment..... 😖hifty:

Originally posted by leonidas
ftr i also think cable is the more powerful of the 2 and is, imo, the most powerful character that can still fit in this tier.

See, this makes me think I'm lowballing him. because I knew he was powerful, but never saw him as pushing the upper limit of the tier.

srug

Anyway, yeah, a good job to Smurph for picking him. I still don't think he's untouchable at this tier, but it's clear he's a force.

oh, i don't think he's untouchable digi, just that in terms of sheer power output he may be at the top. like i said, i'll see if anyone else wants to challenge. if not, i have someone in mind that i guess i should have chosen THIS time..... i just really liked mags. 🙁

oh, and thanks to the judges. i know it can be time-consuming reading through these matches. 👆

There are quite a few characters, who wield raw power above God Like Cable. Yet are still within the confines Mid Herald hierarchy.

Smurph picked wisely, since Cable is extremely well rounded with a good amount of hax due to his TK/TP.

quite a few in the mid tier who wield MORE power? i'd STRONGLY disagree with that..... but imo there are quite a few characters who, were the tier list redone, would/should be bumped from mid to high herald level. IE--cap marvel, beta ray bill, orion among others. so i can see your point if you're looking at the list as it is now. it's kind of a tricky tier imo to accurately gauge.

teheh. Who knows Cable better than me? Believe me you have choices. What happens when you approach the upper tiers, it becomes a rock-paper-scissor scenario.

Anyways, congrats to Smurph.

fair enuff. 👆 we'll see just how long smurph can hold on. you should challenge him with shaman nate... 😖hifty:

Wow, that match did not go down how I expected. I honestly see the match boiling down to a telepathic showdown, but I guess this goes to show I should challenge those assumptions rather than put all my eggs in one basket.

I'm happy I won, but I feel with the way I approached the match, it could have very easily ran the other way.

Thanks a million judges and hosts, you guys rock my sox. Good match Leo!