FotJ Luke vs. DoE Bane

Started by Nephthys3 pages

Yeah, there aren't many people who could solo a Sith temple. Plus she has that ridiculous learning rate.

Must have been some weak ass sith then...

Probably. Still, a lone Jedi Knight vs. roughly 300 Sith minions + Traya + Sion...

It's quite a feat.

Sadly, I just can't take her as some amazing Jedi after both her and Scourge were defeated by that Dark Lord in Revan . Yet, Revan pwns said Sith with a single attack.

That really was an awful book.

There are only two possible explanations, thanks to our writer Karpyshyn who screwed Revan up so good.

1. Nyriss was very powerful indeed.

2. Bad writing, lack of logic, screwing up and contradicting a character's prowess by making Nyriss destroy Meetra.

It was. It really was. In fact, at times, it appeared Drew was trying his hardest to overwrite KotOR 2. At one point it claims Traya led a group of Jedi to the dark side rather than lead the remnants of Revan's empire and then there was the whole fiasco about the Exile never feeling a void in the force. Plus he gave her the absolute worst name possible, hell it's so bad I refuse to use it.

Sadly, that by default makes either Meetra a weakling, or Revan a powerhouse. Or both.

Though if the fight took place on Dromund Kaas then there was probably a dark side nexus at work that heightened Nyriss' power.

So Scourge sucks, then. But we knew that already.

Still, it's clear that Nyriss would've defeated both of them, even if there wasn't a dark side nexus.

[quote]Arhael
Meetra Surik was immenselly powerful

ares834
laughcry
[/quote]

👆

Neph
Though if the fight took place on Dromund Kaas then there was probably a dark side nexus at work that heightened Nyriss' power.

👆

Like Bane's feats on Ambria and Lehon, the Emperor's feats on Byss, Traya's on Malachor V, Nyriss's attacks cannot be interpreted as an accurate portrayal of her typical abilities. Though it is funny that Scourge, who should have been able to access the nexus as well, still couldn't threaten Nyriss even with Surik's aid.

Originally posted by Major Valerian
So Scourge sucks, then. But we knew that already.

I'm really not willing to go through another Karpyshyn book cover-to-cover, so does anyone have a laundry list of feats that Bane performs in ROT and DOE, preferably with excerpts/page numbers/distinguishing markers?

Actually, I'd say the only really bad Karpyshyn book was Revan. The others weren't half as bad.

Btw, I miss you.

Originally posted by ares834
Sadly, I just can't take her as some amazing Jedi after both her and Scourge were defeated by that Dark Lord in Revan . Yet, Revan pwns said Sith with a single attack.

Then you failed to understand the intended message;

1. Nyriss is intended to be that powerful.
2. Revan possessed amazing command of the Force (many acknowledged this). He is one of the few who could handle Nyriss single-handedly.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That really was an awful book.

Novel is not awful. Some parts of the story lack depth and are poorly constructed. It seems as if the novel has been rushed or the author did not had much time. Unfortunately, Drew Karpyshan had a golden opportunity and failed to exploit it fully IMO.

Originally posted by ares834
It was. It really was. In fact, at times, it appeared Drew was trying his hardest to overwrite KotOR 2. At one point it claims Traya led a group of Jedi to the dark side rather than lead the remnants of Revan's empire and then there was the whole fiasco about the Exile never feeling a void in the force. Plus he gave her the absolute worst name possible, hell it's so bad I refuse to use it.

I did not see any noticeable retcons regarding KoTOR II. In fact, Drew clarified and explaining events of KoTOR II was not his objective. He just briefly revisited them.

And you are wrong about Meetra. Drew clearly hinted upon the established canon about Meetra that she once managed to cut herself off from the Force. Hint: Revan once attempted Galaxy-wide search of Exile with the Force but could not feel her presence anywhere. He later found out why; Meetra was a wound in the Force during this time.

However, Drew established in his story that Meetra slowly regained her connection with the Force and no longer remained a wound.

Now supposedly, even if Meetra had remained a wound in the Force, would this have changed the outcome in the novel?

Originally posted by Major Valerian
So Scourge sucks, then. But we knew that already.

Still, it's clear that Nyriss would've defeated both of them, even if there wasn't a dark side nexus.


Scourge does not sucks. He emerged as the finest warrior in the Sith Academy where he was trained. Also, he has killed hundreds of Jedi and Sith by the time of Satele Shan.

Yes, Nyriss is intended to be that much powerful.

Originally posted by Major Valerian
Sadly, that by default makes either Meetra a weakling, or Revan a powerhouse. Or both.

No. Drew made it clear that Meetra was powerful. But Nyriss was very powerful.

Originally posted by Col. Novine
Like Bane's feats on Ambria and Lehon, the Emperor's feats on Byss, Traya's on Malachor V, Nyriss's attacks cannot be interpreted as an accurate portrayal of her typical abilities. Though it is funny that Scourge, who should have been able to access the nexus as well, still couldn't threaten Nyriss even with Surik's aid. [/QUOTE] That is actually incorrect, because Lehon was not a nexus at that point. It was stronger in the Dark Side to make it noticeable, but it did not particularly enhance his abilities. At all.

Ambria..... I can not remember quite what he did there that was so special. He took out 12 Elite Guards of Hetton or whatshisname. And the guy himself. But they were all insanely weak people, and he had orbalisks. He fought Zannah there once, but again, it was the orbalisks. When he finally fought Zannah on Ambria for the final duel, he still did not do much special. Most of his best feats come from normal planets. The only one that did not, to my knowledge, is the field of dark side energy, which was at Prakith.

Originally posted by Col. Novine
Like Bane's feats on Ambria and Lehon,

Thon collected and confined all the darkside on Ambria into a lake, so it wouldn't be a nexus, and Lehon isn't stated as being a darkside nexus either.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
However, Drew established in his story that Meetra slowly regained her connection with the Force and no longer remained a wound.

This contradicts what the game tells us about Exile. Throughout the game she insists that she's regained her connection, but everyone goes 'you have, but not really.' Eventually its revealed that no, she hasn't, shes just leeching the Force off of others.

Its an understandable mistake on Drews part, so I'll just ignore what he said about her regaining the Force.

Neph
Thon collected and confined all the darkside on Ambria into a lake, so it wouldn't be a nexus,

Sorry, I confused Ambria with Prakith—where Bane was said to draw upon the energies of Andeddu’s temple to kill the assembled members of the Malevolence cult.

Neph
and Lehon isn't stated as being a darkside nexus either.

I recall Bane noting in Path of Destruction that the dark side was stronger on Lehon than Korriban, which is itself a dark side nexus of some potency. Wookieepedia’s articles on Bane and Lehon both confirm that, but I don’t have a copy of Path of Destruction with which to quote mine. Can anyone corroborate? If not, it will have to wait until I’m home.

Originally posted by horrors_erentAd
[B]Sorry, I confused Ambria with Prakith—where Bane was said to draw upon the energies of Andeddu’s temple to kill the assembled members of the Malevolence cult.

I recall Bane noting in Path of Destruction that the dark side was stronger on Lehon than Korriban, which is itself a dark side nexus of some potency. /B]

Is that from DoE? That sounds wierd.

Well then my mistake, though iirc that was more about Bane realising just how weak the darkside on Korriban was. I believe that the text makes it clear that this was the case after Bane runs off to search for Sith Spirits. I think he returns saying that Korriban is a shithole darkside-wise, that the spirits have left and that its the Brotherhoods fault. But I distinctly remember it being said that Korriban wasn't nearly the nexus that it used to be.

I have pdf/word document copies of all three books at home so I'll try to find both quotes/excerpts later.

Korriban's nexus has diminished over the years, yes (this is confirmed by Book of Sith), but it was still sufficient to impede the combat performance of both Luke and Jaina well into Fate of the Jedi while simultaneously empowering their Sith opponents. For Lehon to be more powerful than even a weakening Korriban is still extraordinary.