Originally posted by Lord Lucien
No. We blame the Jedi for never going back to save his mother. Ever.
Qui-Gon was dead that whole time. But the other Jedi... yeah, let Anakin miss his mother for 10 years and develop emotional issues. Very Jedi-like.
According to Jedi non-attachment rule Anakin wasn't supposed to miss her and know her whereabouts.
This rule is the main flaw of the Old Order that lasted for thousands years. If not this rule, Jedi would take care of his mother, he wouldn't need to keep his marriage and related to it problems secret, therefore Palpatine wouldn't have leverage over him and as result he would not fall to the darkside.
Originally posted by ArhaelThere's just... so much wrong here. And it's not even that you're "wrong", it's that this bullcrap is what passes for an excuse of a story.
Why Jedi would need to save her? Nothing makes her more special, than all other slaves on Tatooine.According to Jedi non-attachment rule Anakin wasn't supposed to miss her and know her whereabouts.
This rule is the main flaw of the Old Order that lasted for thousands years. If not this rule, Jedi would take care of his mother, he wouldn't need to keep his marriage and related to it problems secret, therefore Palpatine wouldn't have leverage over him and as result he would not fall to the darkside.
Originally posted by Master_Galen
Yeah, Qui-Gon was not a good follower of the code,
And who says that's a bad thing.
Yoda even admits in the ROTS novel to Qui-Gon's spirit/voice that he sees now Qui-Gon was always a wise Jedi.
But to be fair he didn't have much competition in wisdom from the incompetent dummies on the Council.
He tried to tell them he fought a Sith Lord, and 2 of the senior members without even thinking just told him straight "You chat s***"
Yeah great wisdom and reflection on hearing something that could be the biggest and most dangerous piece of news they've ever heard.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
And who says that's a bad thing.Yoda even admits in the ROTS novel to Qui-Gon's spirit/voice that he sees now Qui-Gon was always a wise Jedi.
But to be fair he didn't have much competition in wisdom from the incompetent dummies on the Council.
I never said that it was a bad thing. I actually like the fact that Qui-Gon can think for himself, unlike most of the Jedi who are just barely more than robots. However, this thread asks which Jedi follows the code better, so Qui-Gon doing his own thing does tend to work against him as far as following the code goes.
Originally posted by Master_Galen
This was posted by the thread starter.
Originally posted by Arhael
Fine. But why make thread about the code, if it is clear from beginning that Jinn didn't follow code and was described as maverick Jedi? Qui-Gon was as wise as Yoda, just different way of perception. And at the end of the day, he ended up teaching Yoda.
Yoda obviously beats Qui-Gon in a lightsbaer duel as Qui-Gon tires more quickly than Yoda. The Force battle and all out battle go to Yoda ten times out of ten, so maybe this was the only way that he thought Qui-Gon could win.
Originally posted by Master_Galen
Yoda obviously beats Qui-Gon in a lightsbaer duel as Qui-Gon tires more quickly than Yoda. The Force battle and all out battle go to Yoda ten times out of ten, so maybe this was the only way that he thought Qui-Gon could win.
I'm curious how does Qui-Gon not follow the code? It's pretty loose and easy to follow assuming you don't have any emotional attachments. I can't think of any that Qui-Gon Jinn had that might give him pause from doing the right thing. Yoda, however, was somewhat attached to Dooku as seen in Yoda: DR.
Edit: And Yoda pwns Qui-Gon in a lightsaber duel. Don't kid yourself.
Originally posted by Arhael
Qui-Gon doesn't get tired quicker, than Yoda. Don't think there is any evidence proving that. However, logically due to Yoda's need to constantly empower his old body, he is likely to get tired faster.
Also, I wouldn't give Yoda win in lightsaber combat by default. Qui-Gon was described as on par with Windu. In fight with Maul he lost because of constant kicks and punches. However, in fight with Yoda he wouldn't have such problem.
Yoda in AOTC faces off aginst Dooku and Dooku can't defeat him in pure saber combat. Dooku is forced to use the force against Yoda, and even then Dooku can only force a draw before retreating.
Yoda in ROTS faces off against Sidious, Sidious as well can't beat Yoda in pure saber combat. The duel becomes a force duel that Sidious only wins by knocking Yoda off the senate pods to the ground.
In neither of those duels, against superior duelists than Maul, does Yoda tire as quickly as we see Qui-Gon tire against Maul in TPM.
Just because QGJ was maverick does not mean he did not follow the code, as a lot of Jedi's rules is false interpretation or subjective interetration of the code, and it made clear that ultimately Gui-Gon was the wisest of all the Jedi which is why Siidous targeted him during The Phantom Menace.
Qui-Gon puts up fight in battle I think no matter where it goes. Darth Maul did beat Qui-Gon but he also tooled Sidious in a lightsaber battle when he was ill, injured and fatigued, and did much better job than Yoda, so it makes you question whether Maul would not do same thing to Yoda in pure sabers.
....
Sidious allowed Maul to do that, to inspire the urge to kill him.
Jinn is not the wisest. Hes a bit of a dunce. "Oh yeah, I am outmatched here in this 1-on-1 fight. Lets get away from my padawan and keep it up!"
Jinn died because Maul had been sent to Naboo before Palpatine knew that they were going back, Jinn went there, Maul wanted to stop them, Jinn acted like an idiot, then he learned what a saber through the chest felt like.
Qui-Gonn was the first jedi to ever become the force after he died. In my opinion, he knew a whole lot about the force maybe even more than Yoda. Unfortunately, he is not a strategist in fighting as shown when he did not go back to get his padawan, Obi Wan before engaging with Darth Maul once more. Qui-Gonn does not follow the code by arguing with the Jedi Council's decisions and going against their will. This is the only thing that kept him out of having a seat in the Jedi Council. As for saber dueling......Yoda beats the living daylights out of him easy.
Originally posted by Arhael
Why Jedi would need to save her? Nothing makes her more special, than all other slaves on Tatooine.According to Jedi non-attachment rule Anakin wasn't supposed to miss her and know her whereabouts.
This rule is the main flaw of the Old Order that lasted for thousands years. If not this rule, Jedi would take care of his mother, he wouldn't need to keep his marriage and related to it problems secret, therefore Palpatine wouldn't have leverage over him and as result he would not fall to the darkside.
The Jedi Order up the purge was to damn prideful, arrogant and ignorant.
The New Jedi Order saw the flaws in the old order, basically you take away any advantage of the Darkside to use against you, the New Jedi Order prove this with Luke and Mara. If the Jedi embrace and control their emotions, it would be very hard for you too be manipulate there still a chance, but you will have the power they wont.