Originally posted by Glorificus
How much "prep" did it take for Thanos to obtain the HOTU?
And once it came to light that he was basically being used by TOOA as a tool to fix creation, you have to wonder how much credit he should really get..
That is, it's to his credit TOOA thought he was the man for this job, but it also begs the question of how much influence the Marvel supreme being exerted in seeing him get the power to perform his task..
Originally posted by Digi
But in light of your original statement that Thanos drains Strange's power and steals it from him, this does not constitute even the beginning of a defense of that statement.Thus, you can reasonably hold that you think Thanos would do better, but must concede that we lack evidence to justify the utter steal-stomp that you led with.
For the sake of clarification for this thread. I know Thanos w/ prep in this match bares artifact theft. But, what about Stranges artifacts? Is it out of bounds to say he can take them?
Originally posted by Digi
Again, evidence to support the earlier statement may exist. I don't think it does, personally, not without lopsided prep for Thanos (which this is not). But the point is, no evidence has been produced.
But, is it lopsided if Thanos can do more with prep than strange? I believe he can, but I could be wrong. I just want proof that it's not uneven prep like I think it is.
Originally posted by Digi
I won't be as cruel as cdtm's smilie, but this does reveal a lack of knowledge about Strange. He possesses many powerful prep feats.
It does, which is why I asked what he's done. Because I genuinely don't know.
Originally posted by Classic NES
For the sake of clarification for this thread. I know Thanos w/ prep in this match bares artifact theft. But, what about Stranges artifacts? Is it out of bounds to say he can take them?
No, because it explicitly says in the OP that he has them.
srug
Originally posted by Classic NES
But, is it lopsided if Thanos can do more with prep than strange? I believe he can, but I could be wrong. I just want proof that it's not uneven prep like I think it is.
A fair question. It would take some time to put something together, and others might do a better job of it than I would. If I have some time I'll dig through some of his prep feats. Until then, you have my word that he is not without high-end feats, and we know (per the OP) that he would have his standard artifacts.
However, to remain clear, at this point you have provided exactly the same amount of evidence for Thanos's superiority: zero.
Originally posted by Digi
No, because it explicitly says in the OP that he has them.srug
But, I mean't that if Thanos can plan a way to steal them from Strange.
Originally posted by Digi
However, to remain clear, at this point you have provided exactly the same amount of evidence for Thanos's superiority: zero.
Lets discuss that now.
Originally posted by Classic NES
But, I mean't that if Thanos can plan a way to steal them from Strange.
Doubtful, not when in his own prep and generally has complete mastery over the artifacts. Loki tried to steal some of Strange's swag at one point. Iirc, he nullified some of them with a thought and ended up taking them back.
The Achilles' Heel in this line of thinking is that you still have to provide the "how" of Thanos stealing them. Saying that he might or he could doesn't count for anything.
Originally posted by Classic NES
Lets discuss that now.
Sure, let's.
As for power stealing, Strange does have feats of this. He steals the power of an Infinite, who most would say is at least at Thanos' level.
He also absorbed and stole a considerable amount of power from Shuma Gorath, and it was stated that he had the power to destroy galaxies afterward. Most would put Shuma > or = Thanos.
He's either stalemated or defended against for long periods of time the following entities: Galactus, the IG, and LT.
In a straight prep feat, he conjured a seemingly endless swarm of demons to fight alongside him.
And lest we think Strange couldn't hurt Thanos outright, we have at least some circumstantial evidence that he could:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/468/surfstrange20wu.jpg/
With no prep, he quells both Surfer and Thanos with one blast.
Indirect evidence also suggests that he could, since the beings he normally engages with (Dormammu, Shuma, other cosmic entities) are at least on Thanos's level, and he has numerous planet-busting or better feats of raw power.
This is all just from the first 4-5 pages of his respect thread. There's more, but those are some highlights I managed to pick out.
...
So I think the real question is: what is Thanos's defense against power stealing in a prep fight?
"Prep"
This might need to be defined and, possibly even limited. Especially since, in this thread, is seems to be veering toward the collection, (via stealing) of artifacts and more power.
I have also seen it hinted that Thanos has already shown he is capable of stealing "ultimate power" several times, which, I'm sure, is on it's way to trumping Strange somehow.
So, I thought I would cut to the chase, and say that there are many positive characters who would be capable of duplicating these power acquisition feats, but they do not have the same personality-makeup as Thanos, or thirst for power.
The point to my previous post, was to point out that Strange obviously has the same ability and experiences as Thanos, in some respect, when it comes to targeting and gaining power and items of power.
Because, after all, without this, what is Dr. Strange?
He's just a "guy".
In short, I think we have a couple characters here, that could, pretty much, target and steal, or gain via other means, or learn, etc, etc, etc, almost ANYTHING they set their sights on.
The biggest difference, is that Thanos, being the "Mad Titan" and all, has acted upon his insane thirst for power and Death, wit zero restraint. This has resulted in him attaining the highest of powers in the past.
But, Strange would be capable of much of the same activity.
So, if "prep" turns into a contest of stealing powers and artifacts, this thread will eventually run amok.
Originally posted by Digi
Doubtful, not when in his own prep and generally has complete mastery over the artifacts.
My understanding of this thread is that they get a year tops not that they would meet after years time.
Originally posted by Digi
The Achilles' Heel in this line of thinking is that you still have to provide the "how" of Thanos stealing them. Saying that he might or he could doesn't count for anything.
But, prep is a plot device though. It's both the solution and the methodology, at least that's how it is used in debates. I've never seen anyone try explain what say reed does with any given prep time, rather the word prep itself seems to be self-explanatory. I have the same issue you have with it, but I just didn't bother because that's what everyone else does.
Originally posted by Digi
So I think the real question is: what is Thanos's defense against power stealing in a prep fight?
But, what is Strange gonna steal from Thanos?
😕
Originally posted by Classic NES
But, prep is a plot device though. It's both the solution and the methodology, at least that's how it is used in debates. I've never seen anyone try explain what say reed does with any given prep time, rather the word prep itself seems to be self-explanatory. I have the same issue you have with it, but I just didn't bother because that's what everyone else does.
Everyone else is wrong then. Think about it. How many times have people said "Oh, {X} clearly wins with prep," without having the slightest clue how they do it? How many time are those people wrong? The answer is: we don't know, because the "{X} obviously wins" people aren't thinking critically about the match.
Dig deeper. Be better.
Originally posted by Classic NES
But, what is Strange gonna steal from Thanos?😕
I assumed he'd steal all that awesomeness you have him cooking up in prep.
Anyway, I showed you Strange's prep-cock. What does Thanos have that I'm not aware of, other than building the IG and yoinking cosmic cubes Scooby-Doo-villain style?
Originally posted by cdtm
And once it came to light that he was basically being used by TOOA as a tool to fix creation, you have to wonder how much credit he should really get..That is, it's to his credit TOOA thought he was the man for this job, but it also begs the question of how much influence the Marvel supreme being exerted in seeing him get the power to perform his task..
Being "used as a tool" is a metaphor and shouldn't be taken as literal. It's not like the TOAA was controlling Thanos' body and mind like a puppet. For example, if I trick my friend into moving a boulder, I've used him as a tool, but his feat of lifting the boulder is still his. Likewise, Thanos being tricked by the TOAA to fix the flaw in the universe doesn't negate all the planning, intelligence, will-power Thanos used to accomplish it.
Originally posted by Digi
Everyone else is wrong then. Think about it. How many times have people said "Oh, {X} clearly wins with prep," without having the slightest clue how they do it? How many time are those people wrong? The answer is: we don't know, because the "{X} obviously wins" people aren't thinking critically about the match.
I agree 100% but you can't fight city hall. People don't even factor averages anymore. They go for high-end. I dunno whatelse I can do.
Originally posted by Digi
Anyway, I showed you Strange's prep-cock. What does Thanos have that I'm not aware of, other than building the IG and yoinking cosmic cubes Scooby-Doo-villain style?
We know his feats, do you think it's better or worst than strange?
Originally posted by Classic NES
We know his feats, do you think it's better or worst than strange?
We do? I haven't seen a single one listed outside the artifact grabbing.
Was he the one that detained Galactus in the Annihilation war? If so, there's another. He's out-thought a lot of people, but I can't think of much else where he brings a demonstrable upgrade to a fight as a result of prep. I could be wrong.
Originally posted by Digi
We do? I haven't seen a single one listed outside the artifact grabbing.Was he the one that detained Galactus in the Annihilation war? If so, there's another. He's out-thought a lot of people, but I can't think of much else where he brings a demonstrable upgrade to a fight as a result of prep. I could be wrong.
Outside of artifact grabbing Strange is much more powerful.
