Higgs boson particle

Originally posted by dadudemon
WTF is it with the internet trolling from idiot atheists telling the "Christf*gs" that it's all over now that the God Particle was discovered?

It's as if they don't even understand what function in quantum physics that the Higgs Boson was to have and instead fixate on the word "god" in "God Particle" and think it somehow means "science has disproven a need for God".

That's ALMOST as annoying as the theists saying that this discovery PROVES God's existence!

Why can't we just enjoy the "potential" discovery for it's own sake and not inject religion or anti-religion?

/diatribe

Where is anyone saying this in the scientific community, instead of just internet trolls? I mean, really, are we going to care about any claims made by laymen. The media is responsible for the "God particle" label more so than any scientist anyway. Your gripe would be legitimate if the claims were coming from a reputable source.

Because I'm sure somewhere, as you mentioned, there's a Christian minister going on about how the atheist claims of the God particle mean nothing to faith, and he's just as uninformed about the situation. But neither is worth listening to. Only difference, as I see it, is that internet armchair atheists don't speak for the scientific community. But priests, who are just as ill-equipped to comment on this discovery, do speak for large sections of the religious community.

Originally posted by Morridini
Curious, how do anyone reach the conclusion that this disproves God?

God requires faith.
Evidence of God's existence disproves him.
The Higgs Boson is made of God.
Thus we found God.
Thus God does not exist.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
God requires faith.
Evidence of God's existence disproves him.
The Higgs Boson is made of God.
Thus we found God.
Thus God does not exist.

Not sure this really holds up. But...

More generally, we're pretty damn close even before this to being able to say the universe definitely needs no outside creator to be in existence and function as it does. While this isn't a blow to faith in general, it's a sharp blow to many of the claims made by religions and their holy texts. We once had to appeal to the unknown to explain large aspects of our existence. We no longer need to do so.

This is just a small step in that process.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
God requires faith.
Evidence of God's existence disproves him.
The Higgs Boson is made of God.
Thus we found God.
Thus God does not exist.

Point 2 and 3 are false.

Originally posted by Morridini
Point 2 and 3 are false.

I don't make the rules.

Oh, it's now official by the way. CERN found results that show "a particle consistent with the Higgs Boson".

Originally posted by Morridini
Point 2 and 3 are false.

They're contentious, not necessarily false. I don't agree with Sym's overall statements either, though I reframed them in perhaps more acceptable terms, but we have to be cautious in our statements.

The article discussing this on the New York Times' home page--an article with the tagline "Discovery of Particle Could Redefine Physical World" is the second article...

...after an article with the tagline "Midwest’s Heat Dashes Hopes for a Bumper Crop of Corn"

Originally posted by Omega Vision
The article discussing this on the New York Times' home page--an article with the tagline "Discovery of Particle Could Redefine Physical World" is the second article...

...after an article with the tagline "Midwest’s Heat Dashes Hopes for a Bumper Crop of Corn"

At least it's second. Some won't give it that kind of billing.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Oh, it's now official by the way. CERN found results that show "a particle consistent with the Higgs Boson".

Yeah, that's what they said from the very beginning (or at least from 40 minutes into the talk).

Yay for the higon.

*chuckles* '...how can you have Mass...'

EDIT: Dammit ninja'd

Also are Symmetric Chaos and I the only two here who have read HGTTG? 🙄

All the talk about it doing anything for theism is ridiculous. Nothing that comes out of this will prove that there is or isn't a God, thousands of gods, or nothing at all but the matter that is the Universe.

Why can't people just enjoy science for science's sake anymore? =p

Originally posted by Ascendancy
All the talk about it doing anything for theism is ridiculous. Nothing that comes out of this will prove that there is or isn't a God, thousands of gods, or nothing at all but the matter that is the Universe.

God, no. Religion, yes in many cases.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Why can't people just enjoy science for science's sake anymore? =p

This seems to be a bit of a red herring. Outside of, say, idiotic facebook news feeds, I haven't seen anyone associated with this discovery try to make any claims about theism.

Hell, Fox News' coverage of this mentions that the physicists involved don't refer to it as a God particle.

...making something out of nothing. No one who matters in this discussion is doing anything but enjoying the science.

2 million years of evolution, and we've finally completed level 1!

Originally posted by parenthesis
2 million years of evolution, and we've finally completed level 1!

I don't know what you mean by this, but it sounds oversimplified and flippant.

Originally posted by Digi
Where is anyone saying this in the scientific community, instead of just internet trolls? I mean, really, are we going to care about any claims made by laymen. The media is responsible for the "God particle" label more so than any scientist anyway. Your gripe would be legitimate if the claims were coming from a reputable source.

My gripe is perfectly legit.

I think you missed the part in my post where I said:

"WTF is it with the internet trolling from idiot atheists...."

Originally posted by Digi
Because I'm sure somewhere, as you mentioned, there's a Christian minister going on about how the atheist claims of the God particle mean nothing to faith, and he's just as uninformed about the situation. But neither is worth listening to. Only difference, as I see it, is that internet armchair atheists don't speak for the scientific community. But priests, who are just as ill-equipped to comment on this discovery, do speak for large sections of the religious community.

I do not see how the "scientific community" has anything to do with my point, whatsoever. My statement was not about the viewpoint of the scientific community: it was about idiots who call themselves "atheists" and rage on the internet at the "Christf*gs".

Originally posted by Digi
More generally, we're pretty damn close even before this to being able to say the universe definitely needs no outside creator to be in existence and function as it does.

I have a very large problem with that notion. All it is doing is moving the problem to a situation opposte of "God of the Gaps"...but still shifting it to a 'gap' explanation.

I do not know if there is a label for it so I will make one: "The godless of the gaps."

Those ideas simply choose to ignore the fact that those "rules" that created the universe on their own, exist.

Originally posted by Digi
While this isn't a blow to faith in general, it's a sharp blow to many of the claims made by religions and their holy texts. We once had to appeal to the unknown to explain large aspects of our existence. We no longer need to do so.

This is just a small step in that process.

I agree, here.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Why can't people just enjoy science for science's sake anymore? =p

lol

Yes. That was my exact argument.

Originally posted by Digi
I don't know what you mean by this, but it sounds oversimplified and flippant.

I think it was a reference to the first hominid species showing up around that time and it took 2 million years to reach where we are. Then...we "discovered" the Higgs Boson.

I do not think it was a statement about evolution only taking 2 years. I guess you thought was trying to say something akin to "medium-aged earth creationists"? lol

Originally posted by jalek moye
Curious about that view. What do you think useful may come from them beyond simply having more proof for a theory?

I myself no very little about this but am curious about what beneficial effect you see.

Think about radiation...It took almost 50 between discovery and application and it's something that is still evolving now.

Theoretical applications of being able to manipulate Higgs-Boson is that you would be able to change the interia of products. Changing the mass of matter would be staggering.

I'm not all that good at physics and so the eventual harnessing, manipulation and application of HB is way out of my understanding.

Originally posted by Digi

I think Sym was talking more about other sciences though. Realistically, no English program needs billions of dollars for anything.

I think it would cost billions in order to make sure no one in the world ever mixed up "there", "they're" and "their" again.

Or "of" and "have"

Or any of those stupid mistakes that make me want to kill people.

Originally posted by jaden101

Or "of" and "have"