Originally posted by pym-ftw
LT has existed in 616 reality, strange said if he entered 616 after absorbing Mr Gorath's power it would collapse that realityI know its a stretch, but if true he would be over LT, in at least aura
Granted I assume LT to be able to collapse realities
Sol's Anvil was stated by the Council of Reeds as being a weapon capable of destroying a reality , so I guess its above the LT now ?
Same can be said about the Celestial Nullifier .
LT's M-Bodies exist in all realities . And Strange with Gorath's power was only capable of collapsing (an unspecified number of) galaxies , not the entire universe .
Its possible to destroy an M-Body cuz they are formed from the extradimensional Fractals from the dimension of Manifestations . The concept(that the M-Body hosts) itself can't be destroyed . To my knowledge only PR Beyonder has completely wiped out a concept(Death) from existence .
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
And Strange with Gorath's power was only capable of collapsing (an unspecified number of) galaxies , not the entire universe .
Strange after absorbing Shuma's power was stated to be able to destroy galaxies just by being present, it wasn't near his total power output. In Steve Englehart's mind, Shuma-Gorath was certainly capable of destroying a universe, considering it's stated more than once within his narration that the entire cosmos would fall if Shuma succeeded in defeating Strange.
the furies can only be called upon if the offender has done something to warrant their being summoned. then they will remain after the person and not give up. it seems they would have been unable to kill morpheus in the dreaming though, had he not willingly left and while gone, allowed the furies to enter. morpheus is the absolute ruler of the dreaming though and a concept to boot. not sure how truly supreme shuma is in his world. there is a chance that if he is truly supreme, they would not be able to enter. if they DID get in though, i don't see anyway shuma could stop them from killing him.
Originally posted by zopzop
Already provided in the Thanos with the IG vs the Endless thread. Shuma Gorath is one of the Many Angled Ones (and his name was invoked during the Necropsy Ritual), they cant' die but they can get wrecked................badly.
whoa, i must have missed that. i know you mentioned his name was invoked but i didn't realize he was revealed as one of the mao. doesn't he have a dimension all his own somewhere? and didn't you say death was reintroduced in the cancerverse? or wasn't that his native dimension? or did death prove>shuma?
hrm. gonna have to read TI i guess.
Originally posted by leonidas
whoa, i must have missed that. i know you mentioned his name was invoked but i didn't realize he was revealed as one of the mao. doesn't he have a dimension all his own somewhere? and didn't you say death was reintroduced in the cancerverse? or wasn't that his native dimension? or did death prove>shuma?hrm. gonna have to read TI i guess.
Originally posted by zopzop
Death>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the Entire Cancerverse and it's Gods (the Many Angled Ones). The only way they even banished/"killed" Death was through the Necropsy Ritual AND the fact that there was something odd about the Cancerverse (even before the ritual took place, I need to look this up).
that seems....odd. so was that some form of retcon then? he'd always been considered a demon, or OLD ONE from what i remember. i'd thought shuma and zom were somewhere around equal (depending on which bit of hyperbole you bought) along with set and chthon and a couple others. and all of them were considered to be threats to eternity (weren't a couple supposed greater than eternity??)
and yet shuma is now<<<<<<<<death. does that lessen all the other 'demons' in turn? wtf was marvel thinking in TI?? it seems to have f'd some things up good.....
Originally posted by leonidas
that seems....odd. so was that some form of retcon then? he'd always been considered a demon, or OLD ONE from what i remember. i'd thought shuma and zom were somewhere around equal (depending on which bit of hyperbole you bought) along with set and chthon and a couple others. and all of them were considered to be threats to eternity (weren't a couple supposed greater than eternity??)and yet shuma is now<<<<<<<<death. does that lessen all the other 'demons' in turn? wtf was marvel thinking in TI?? it seems to have f'd some things up good.....
The Old Ones are the Many Angled Ones, just using a different name. They stole that from HP Lovecraft and his writings.
Originally posted by zopzop
No demon lord is a threat to Eternity or Death or Infinity or Oblivion. Where did you get that idea from? Are you referring the the Chthon/Hank Pym/Eternity incident? That never happened. It was Loki trolling Pym.The Old Ones are the Many Angled Ones, just using a different name. They stole that from HP Lovecraft and his writings.
hmm i thought that zom supposedly needed to be contained by eternity and dormmy at one point. and clearly dormmy has been a threat to eternity by himself. and didn't eternity thank pym himself for saving him or was that shown to be nothing later on?
and i thought even the vishanti were powerless to stop shuma?? seems marvel's demonology is as confusing as its cosmology........
Originally posted by leonidas
hmm i thought that zom supposedly needed to be contained by eternity and dormmy at one point. and clearly dormmy has been a threat to eternity by himself. and didn't eternity thank pym himself for saving him or was that shown to be nothing later on?and i thought even the vishanti were powerless to stop shuma?? seems marvel's demonology is as confusing as its cosmology........
Dormammu really isn't a threat to Eternity at all. He only has a chance when something extraordinary happens and Eternity is weaken somehow (see most recent incident involving these two).
Eternity never thanked Pym for saving him from Chthon, it was Loki trolling Hank. I got the scans to prove it if you want to see them.
The Vishanti weren't powerless to stop Shuma Gorath.