Actually , an aspect of evil(destruction) does matter to him . He confirmed this in the recent AVX issue .
I don't think that hell-lords(like Mephisto) are in the same league as Celestials , because Franklin Richards , as a child , pulverized one in the latter's own realm , and he has consistently been portrayed as around the level of a Celestial .
Abstract level ? Based on what ?
he stopped Galactus, Strange, and Surfer during travel. That's an abstract, and two highly-capable characters...
Cytorrak doesn't care about anything , only his name being spread. That's why a villain (Cain) and a hero (colossus) could both use his power. Destruction can occur if heroes are defending against villains, or the other way around. At least...imo, anyway.
Franklin Richards has abstract level powers, but he's still mortal. He's quite capable, I give him that...but I wouldn't put him against anyone insanely powerful without a proper story to back why he's doing the things that he's doing.
I'd put Mephisto in the same league as celestials. Mephisto was there when Protege stole LT's power. I think that says something, because not every celestial, abstract, or hell lord was present during that situation. And on top of that, just like Celestials, Mephisto isn't supposed to interfere with the ways of mankind....he does stuff like try to bargain with Spider-Man just to manipulate the world in any way he can. it's a little different, but they're similar enough
Galactus is not a true Abstract . More like a force of nature . He represents Equity on the LT's face , but he isn't a concept in itself .
Mephisto and Malevolence were present only when Protege summoned them , and that was AFTER he stole LT's power .
Btw , the GOTG were present as well when Protege stole LT's power , so I guess by that logic they too should be around the same level as the Celestials , right ?
As far as as current Franklin goes , he's immortal . And has high-end cosmic powers to boot .
As far interfering goes , you think that Celestials aren't supposed to interfere in humanity's(or any other sentient race they created) affairs (when this is one of the main reasons why the entire Watcher race went to war with them) ?
I disagree when you say Galactus is not a true abstract. Balance is an abstract concept, that separates good from evil. Chaos from Order. If you only know one of the two, you are IMO equated to a celestial or hell lord. (meaning, you lean towards one side more than the other) Anything below (elder god, sky father, cosmics) is affected by these forces. An example of imbalanced characterizations would be someone who only knows evil...like Doomsday. What happened when he became more aware? He calmed down.
GOTG were present, yes, but that is not how I meant for that statement to apply. You had beings like Scathan, Mephisto, Galactus...true abstracts, and the "higher" sides of the representation of positive (celestial) and negative (hellish) beings. Scathan must be on the highest side of positive energy, if his approval capabilities can override such an anomaly as Protege. See, on the negative side...nothing could be done. On the positive side where Scathan stands...creation is good! So Scathan can approve of things that lead to the story continuing on.
Franklin is not a true abstract. He is killable. His destiny may be to become the next Galactus, but he isn't there yet. He has high end cosmic powers, but he's nowhere near unbeatable. Put him against a group of celestials...
And yeah, you're right. Maybe I said it wrong. Celestials have the authority to interfere with what they created, and they tell "gods" like Odin and them not to. The creations don't want to be tampered with anyway, that is truth. I'm trying to say that Celestials are not supposed to let the majority of mankind know their presence...that's why they erase memories and don't allow communication for the most part with lesser beings. That's just like Angels when you really think about it, and Celestial can mean angelic. And above all else, Celestial Hosts have taken down sky fathers and entire pantheons. They are more capable than typical "gods"
Mephisto and Malevolence being there, to me, is the writers showing that there needed to be parties from both sides of potential influence. Who else represents evil like Mephisto in Marvel? Mephisto posed as Satan supposedly, right?
Current Franklin is immortal(or at least his adult self is) . You need to read the recent FF issues in which this fact has been alluded. Its in F4#605 and FF#16 . He's gonna witness the heat death of the universe along with Galactus .
As far his being killable goes , so is Galactus .
And as far as him being beatable goes ..........well so is Galactus again . Along with Eternity . And even the LT(although there are strict plot based stipulations for such a thing to happen) .
IMO , only an avatar of Death(like Thanos) can be truly regarded as immortal(or as close to true immortality as one can get) .
I still don't thing that Galactus is a truly conceptual being . Its true that on the LT's face , Galactus represents Equity , but what concept could you refer Galactus as ?
Mephisto is actually one of the many demonic beings that were created by the original Infinity Being to alleviate its solitude . The absence of good is what caused him and all those creations of the IB to degenerate into evil creatures . With him it is more a case of devolving into an evil being , rather than having been an absolute concept of evil that existed throughout .
Also Doomsday(in his classic portrayal) is more or less an animal , a mindless beast , thus he would not really have any concept of good or evil . So I don't think you should use him as an example here .
Originally posted by lilshogun
Besiding using avatars, who has Cyttorak fought?
i've only seen him kinda fight Juggy, which I don't count (not because it's a low showing that people would use against my argument, but because it's an internal struggle)
he kind of fought with watoomb when several mystical entities were trying to recruit Strange
I think Cytorrak is abstract in power because....how is an external force going to have Galactus hemmed up, but yet Odin couldn't do the same?
In reference to Doomsday....if someone is to be considered mindless? Within their mind, they can only comprehend confusion. And in their confusion, they do treacherous things like rampage through cities. Going off of instincts to do harm alone means that the mind is operating chaotically. chaos, is the absence of all order. Doomsday didn't want any friends, he didn't want to plant any flowers. He wanted everything demolished. Beings like that are labeled as bad.
galactus represents balance. if there is no balance in existence, then that is when abraxas comes out...who represents imbalance. Galactus is abstract because when the inbetweener tried to summon an opposite to face him, he couldn't....because Intbetweener was literally the opposite to Galactus. Balance and Duality go hand in hand.
i'll be sure to check out the recent FFs. I know Franklin has crazy potential, but all in all he's not as significant as an abstract or deity so I'm confident that there are ways to put him down.
Franklin doesn't have any significance to the universe....YET .For all we know Hickman might have a few surprises in his pocket left for the coming FF issues . There are ways to put him down , I agree but there are such ways for guys like Galactus as well .
I am not saying that Franklin is an Abstract , just that based on his current portrayal , he's immortal .
As far as Doomsday goes , we don't call a man-eating tiger evil , do we ? Nor do we call a bull that goes berserk and ends up goring.trampling humans to death , as evil do we ? Doomsday is an animal , a mindless monster , and as such can't be held accountable for his actions . Therefore , he can't possibly be considered as evil .
As far as Abraxas goes , he is Eternity's antithesis . In all likelihood , like Mikaboshi , Abraxas too is an aspect of Oblivion(although that hasn't been revealed yet , it isn't a stretch to think so , if you consider the Eternity/Infinity-Death/Oblivion relationship) .
Originally posted by JynocidusFranklin Richards has abstract level powers, but he's still mortal. He's quite capable, I give him that...but I wouldn't put him against anyone insanely powerful without a proper story to back why he's doing the things that he's doing.
Franklin is way beyond mortal now. As a matter of fact, he is probably beyond gods and demons. Anyway, he will survive literally until the end of the universe, one of the only 2 who will.