Originally posted by Digi
carver. what.Surfer's more powerful than any one of them, maybe 2 or 3 if you choose the right ones. I can't speak to DCnU, but if you take, say, pre-Flashpoint Hal and Kal, Surfer loses. There's almost literally no one else versed in the characters that will disagree with me on that on KMC, and that includes a lot of comic knowledge.
I disagree with you on norrin but they'd have to change his characterization drastically
I think that Blue Marvel would make a great villain in DC if they kept the same or similar back story of him being told to give up his superhero status because he was black. I could see he going into isolation for all those years then all of a sudden growing pissed with the government and comes back and just snaps. I think it would be interesting to see how all the other black heroes would respond.
And I think that Martian Manhunter would be a good villain in Marvel.
Originally posted by Digi
carver. what.Surfer's more powerful than any one of them, maybe 2 or 3 if you choose the right ones. I can't speak to DCnU, but if you take, say, pre-Flashpoint Hal and Kal, Surfer loses. There's almost literally no one else versed in the characters that will disagree with me on that on KMC, and that includes a lot of comic knowledge.
It depends on how you view and write these characters. The only reason I chose Hulk and Surfer is due to their unlimited potential. Surfer is a character that can do basically anything when he puts his mind to it...anything, so there are possibilities of him being a team wrecker in DC. Hulk is a physical specimen with no bounds as well. I haven't seen Surfer fight teams and actually do amazing against them (even though I still think he has the potential) but Hulk has consistently been a team buster. You don't agree with this?
Best DC Hero to be a Marvel Villain? - Spectre... Who the heck's gonna stop him?
Best DC Villain to be a Marvel Hero? - Deathstroke could be the Batman character marvel is lacking.
Best Marvel Hero to be a DC Villain? - Spider-man would give low to mid tiers fits.
Best Marvel Villain to be a DC Hero? - Dr. Doom could take his place in the Justice League easily.
Originally posted by carver9
It depends on how you view and write these characters. The only reason I chose Hulk and Surfer is due to their unlimited potential. Surfer is a character that can do basically anything when he puts his mind to it...anything, so there are possibilities of him being a team wrecker in DC. Hulk is a physical specimen with no bounds as well. I haven't seen Surfer fight teams and actually do amazing against them (even though I still think he has the potential) but Hulk has consistently been a team buster. You don't agree with this?
Not at all.
"A Green Lantern is a character that can do basically anything when he puts his mind to it. He wields the most powerful weapon in the universe and draws from a limitless source. GL have been shown as team-wreckers when let loose, have destroyed planets, etc."
"Superman is a character that can do basically anything when he puts his mind to it. He can and has overcome team-wrecker characters on numerous occasions by letting loose with his powers and strength."
"Thor is a character that can do basically anything when he puts his mind to it. He can absorb the physical and energy attacks against them and transfer them back to his opponent. He has taken on team-wreckers and Trans. beings and won."
"Flash is a character that can do basically anything when he puts his mind to it. He has stolen the speed, inertia, and ability to move from characters that can exceed lightspeed, can move fast enough to never be touched by any character not using the speed force, and can channel that speed into attacks that should invert reality. He can take down any number of heroes when let loose."
I could go on.
These guys all have their moment in the sun. They all take on numerous heralds at some point simultaneously and come out of it looking great. They almost all have planet-buster potential, nano or pico-second reaction times, FTL flight speeds, etc.
You frequently face strong reactions to your backing of Hulk. But it has nothing to do with Hulk himself, but the fact that these guys and others have similar feats pock-marked throughout comics for decades, and that you seem to focus only on the Hulk's feats. Each one of these guys has had team-buster moments, sometimes numerous ones. Most have planet-buster feats, or something that's the equivalent of it. Each one has either stalemated or beaten someone considered to be Trans.
I agree Surfer is potentially the most powerful single character among those mentioned. That's it. Allow for "best feats" for all, and Hulk never touches Superman or Flash, GL hurls him into the sun (or teleports him there, or shrinks him to the size of a thimble, or absorb his radiation, or...), and I'll grant you a Thor win, because Thor usually fights like an idiot and some of his more exotic powers aren't as useful against Hulk as they are against other characters. And if Surfer allows Superman into melee range, faces a GL who raises the bar Alan Scott-style, or gets tangled in Flash's kinetic stealing, he could lose to these guys as well. Hulk's relative newness at this level (he didn't have the feats to even sniff these guys until the last 5-6 years) also means he has less to draw from.
So could Hulk take on the JLA? Absolutely - writers love playing around with power levels for individual arcs, and teams have a tendency to dumb down their component parts, as opposed to solo books. But if he fought a good, KMC-style JLA, he'd have 3-4 characters running/flying circles around him, would be shrunk, immobile from lack of kinetic energy, gassed, assaulted by a planet-level telepath, would have heat-vision holes in his brain from 2-3 sources, and would soon find himself fighting in space or inside a sun. Shields that can withstand black holes would be shielding the team from any radiation, or GL could matter manip. it to something else. And none that would be so dumb as to brawl with him, except maybe Superman who could handle that encounter for quite a while, and possibly win it outright.
It's not that Hulk isn't powerful. He is, and he's capable of beating any of these guys if they don't fight well or if the encounter happens to go his way. But it's that a writer would need to willfully ignore powers to have him take on this particular team in its entirety. If everyone's willing to just test themselves against "SMASH" then they lose, not unlike, say, Despero (who also had high-level telepathy, granted).
I don't expect to convince you, but can you at least admit that it's not as clear-cut as you say?
Re: Re: The Big Switch (Marvel & DC)
Originally posted by janus77
1. What Marvel hero would make for the best villain in DC?
Surfer - remorseless. cold hearted and shiny herald of death... He would pretty much require the entire JLA, and even then they wouldn't really be able to do anything other than keep him at bay for a while (intangibility and dimension shifting instantly).
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