I'll take that, but I think your reaching a bit here with the dd analogy. That is an example of pis, it's just not reasonable for Matt to trounce so many super powered villians so easily without assistance.
I try to gauge both characters powersets across each medium by using their averages, and also taken into account that henchmen are just that fodder, their ease of defeat or lack thereof is plot induced.
It's like one omac giving superman pause, then the next scene he's plowing thru them
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Just want a slight change of pace here in thr forum. But I was a DM since 12 🙂 anywho I wouldn't place him that high, he is a exceptional fighter with alot of innate and magical abilities. He's not stomping bp but he is more than a.good match for him
😉 Damn I wish I knew girls like you.
What are Drizzt's feats?
http://www.comicvine.com/drizzt-dourden/29-43472/?full_site=true
Go to Barnes and Nobles me and my friends loiter there for hours although their more into japanime than me
Originally posted by Sin I AM
I'll take that, but I think your reaching a bit here with the dd analogy. That is an example of pis, it's just not reasonable for Matt to trounce so many super powered villians so easily without assistance.I try to gauge both characters powersets across each medium by using their averages, and also taken into account that henchmen are just that fodder, their ease of defeat or lack thereof is plot induced.
It's like one omac giving superman pause, then the next scene he's plowing thru them
The MGH pushes it over the top, but it's not the only time DD has engaged a group in the triple digits and won, and he isn't the only character who has done it either. Batman, Cap, they've all done it. The level these guys operate on is far and above the level Drizzt is at. Drizzt's best speed feat is whirl winding his swords and deflecting arrows / cross bow bolt. Batman can turn on a dime and catch arrows out of the arrow while they are fired on his turned back... and that doesn't even warrant a place in a list of Batman's best speed feats. IMO There is just huge disparity between the established capabilities of these characters.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
The MGH pushes it over the top, but it's not the only time DD has engaged a group in the triple digits and won, and he isn't the only character who has done it either. Batman, Cap, they've all done it. The level these guys operate on is far and above the level Drizzt is at. Drizzt's best speed feat is whirl winding his swords and deflecting arrows / cross bow bolt. Batman can turn on a dime and catch arrows out of the arrow while they are fired on his turned back... and that doesn't even warrant a place in a list of Batman's best speed feats. IMO There is just huge disparity between the established capabilities of these characters.
Fodder is fodder regardless if its ten ninjas or a hundred goblins. You seem to grant the mgh hordes some great advantages over the orcs n trolls of the realms when most campaign setting characters have fighting skills as opposed to comic analogues. It's not like BP is gonna wade thru a group of high streets
Originally posted by ares834
Are the Drizzet comics just comic adaptations of the novels or are they original stories?
The former
Originally posted by the ninjak
😉 Damn I wish I knew girls like you.What are Drizzt's feats?
He exists almost solely in books, so there's no real documentation.
He's a dark elf master swordsman, who was the best among an entire race of creatures whose lives are spent training for martial combat or magic.
He has an onyx figurine that can summon an 800lb panther, who is semi-intelligent and can respond to commands and battle strategies.
He has two scimitars, one was recovered from an ice dragon's lair and can negate the effects of intense heat on the bearer, even going so far as to extinguish many flames. The other is diamond-edged.
His skill as a swordsman is rivaled by few, and he can move as a blur to average combatants. He also wears enchanted bracers which enhance his running speed and foot dexterity.
Consistent with his race's innate abilities, he can summon globes of absolute darkness, through which no light can pierce. He can summon these globes a considerable distance away from him if needed. He can also switch his vision to detect heat (infrared?) to give himself an advantage at night or in darkness. His senses are also considerably refined, though they are not enhanced by any magical means.
He currently also wields a bow that has infinite ammo, and whose arrows strike with lightning blasts and can cut through rock.
He can also summon a unicorn. This is used more as a mount than a fighting partner, but has proven itself adept at combat as well.
If you accept that his physical stats and skill are on par with those in the "high street" comic tier, his trinkets and abilities push him to low meta. Not all think this, however.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
/shrugI don't know... the difference seems blatantly obvious to me. Just for example, there has been several times in the books where Drizzt or Artemis have lamented against engaging a "score" of (which I think is twenty) orcs - or what have you - and how they can't win the contest straight up (and they've had back up with them in most of those instances). Alternatively Daredevil will just jump in and fight 200 super human Yakuza juiced on Mutant Growth Hormone... and win. The difference between Drizzt and a comic peak human is pretty glaring.
There are certain obvious exceptions, but for the most part fictional swords men / martial artists from novels just can't content with their comic book counter parts. in the same way that that human comic book swords men / martial artists are typically outgunned by the anime / manga equivalents.
I think your orc example just has more to do with comics and their treatment of "fodder" characters. Whereas Salvatore will describe an entire fight sequence involving, say, 6 orcs, comics will gloss over it. Thus, it wouldn't make any sense to have him casually dismiss 100 orcs in a page or two. It's narrative more than power-based. His skill and precision are about as good as one can be without being superhumanly fast, and he is superhumanly fast at times due to the bracers. Anyway, if those Yakuza were all high-street-ish and not utter fodder, then DD running through them is one of the worst cases of PIS ever.
Guen can't be discounted either, making it a 2-on-1 in any fight where the figurine is considered standard equipment.
I'd also contend that Drizzt has faced such odds more than once, though not always in sheer numbers (trolls, giants, etc. count for more than individual goblins, for example). I don't know if he'd clear the Yakuza gauntlet you mentioned, but I think he'd fare pretty well, and manage the fight to his advantage.
I don't doubt that comics in general > novel characters. However, I don't think the skill gap is that wide in this case, if it exists at all, and all of his other abilities and items puts him above nearly any street character.
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Fodder is fodder regardless if its ten ninjas or a hundred goblins. You seem to grant the mgh hordes some great advantages over the orcs n trolls of the realms when most campaign setting characters have fighting skills as opposed to comic analogues. It's not like BP is gonna wade thru a group of high streetsThe former
Fodder may always be fodder, but beating ten enemies is always more impressive than beating one, and beating a hundred is more impressive that ten. In terms of scale, comic book streets operate on a different level then the Companions of the Hall, everything Drizzt and crew do, comic streets do bigger and better.
Originally posted by Digi
I think your orc example just has more to do with comics and their treatment of "fodder" characters. Whereas Salvatore will describe an entire fight sequence involving, say, 6 orcs, comics will gloss over it. Thus, it wouldn't make any sense to have him casually dismiss 100 orcs in a page or two. It's narrative more than power-based. His skill and precision are about as good as one can be without being superhumanly fast, and he is superhumanly fast at times due to the bracers. Anyway, if those Yakuza were all high-street-ish and not utter fodder, then DD running through them is one of the worst cases of PIS ever.Guen can't be discounted either, making it a 2-on-1 in any fight where the figurine is considered standard equipment.
I'd also contend that Drizzt has faced such odds more than once, though not always in sheer numbers (trolls, giants, etc. count for more than individual goblins, for example). I don't know if he'd clear the Yakuza gauntlet you mentioned, but I think he'd fare pretty well, and manage the fight to his advantage.
I don't doubt that comics in general > novel characters. However, I don't think the skill gap is that wide in this case, if it exists at all, and all of his other abilities and items puts him above nearly any street character.
Salvatore could write a fight scene where Drizzt kills 1000 orcs, as easily he can write a scene where he fights ten. Drizzt isn't operating at a smaller scale do to some inherent limitation of the medium, because the only limitations of the written word is the imagination of the writer. He is depicted at operating at the levels he operates at... because that's what the author has in mind. RA Salvatore still up holds some pretense that these characters are around human levels... Marvel and DC long ago stopped pretending that their top streets were in the realm of humanly possible. I don't see how you can just ignore the fact that characters like Panther routinely engage scores of enemies in martial combat against on their own and win. Beating 100 men is more impressive then beating 10. It's ten times more impressive. I know you really don't want to concede that Panther and the other streets have better feats... but what is you rationalization behind your stance that Drizzt is a match for these guys? If you don't dismiss Black Panther's accomplishments off hand, then a simple side by side comparison of the relative speed, strength and skill feats of these characters is going to lean HEAVILY in T'Challa's favour. I'm really curious as to why you think Drizzt stands a chance... because right now it just seems like something you've arbitrarily decided with nothing concrete to base it on. If you aren't going to base your opinion on the accomplishments of the characters... why even bother.
I don't think Guen matters... I think Panther could solo the entire Companions of the Hall.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Salvatore could write a fight scene where Drizzt kills 1000 orcs, as easily he can write a scene where he fights ten. Drizzt isn't operating at a smaller scale do to some inherent limitation of the medium, because the only limitations of the written word is the imagination of the writer. He is depicted at operating at the levels he operates at... because that's what the author has in mind. RA Salvatore still up holds some pretense that these characters are around human levels... Marvel and DC long ago stopped pretending that their top streets were in the realm of humanly possible. I don't see how you can just ignore the fact that characters like Panther routinely engage scores of enemies in martial combat against on their own and win. Beating 100 men is more impressive then beating 10. It's ten times more impressive. I know you really don't want to concede that Panther and the other streets have better feats... but what is you rationalization behind your stance that Drizzt is a match for these guys? If you don't dismiss Black Panther's accomplishments off hand, then a simple side by side comparison of the relative speed, strength and skill feats of these characters is going to lean HEAVILY in T'Challa's favour. I'm really curious as to why you think Drizzt stands a chance... because right now it just seems like something you've arbitrarily decided with nothing concrete to base it on. If you aren't going to base your opinion on the accomplishments of the characters... why even bother.I don't think Guen matters... I think Panther could solo the entire Companions of the Hall.
Well, I think you downplay Drizzt's best feats. He's waded into indeterminate amounts of baddies before and done well...I'm thinking of, for example, when he went into "Hunter" mode during the big orc war. Also as mentioned, some of the harder-to-pin-down encounters, like he and Wulfgar in the save of...was it giants? Anyway, he has at least a few such feats, and guys like that are orders of magnitude tougher than similarly-numbered fodder.
Again, though, I don't know that fodder count should be our primary gauge.
I also think he routinely moves as fast as anything BP does. Perhaps BP best feats trump Drizzt's, I'm not a BP expert despite knowing as much about him as the average comic book and Avengers nerd, but Drizzt has faster-than-perception hand and feet feats, and he's also incredibly consistent in his ability and power...probably the benefit of having a single writer.
The arrows have slight AoE and Drizzt can fire off entire volleys while under duress until they're in melee range. And I think you're woefully undersell Guen.
Soloing the Companions...well, like I said, the disconnect is too great. We're not going to find common ground here.
Originally posted by Sin I AM
what does bp bring to the table that pushes him over the top
He can tank whatever arrows he doesnt dodge . Dropping globes of darkness and levitating aren't going to fool BP. While Drizzt is impeccable in melee I don't see Icingdeath and Twinkle getting past the suit. BP wears him down then ko's imo. He brings peak human stats ,superior senses, his fighting skill, and his vibranium suit that help push him past . Convince me how Drizzt wins.
Originally posted by BlueFnord
He can tank whatever arrows he doesnt dodge . Dropping globes of darkness and levitating aren't going to fool BP. While Drizzt is impeccable in melee I don't see Icingdeath and Twinkle getting past the suit. BP wears him down then ko's imo. He brings peak human stats ,superior senses, his fighting skill, and his vibranium suit that help push him past . Convince me how Drizzt wins.
Digi pretty much summed it up earlier. Drizzt is a force of nature when he goes feral with those scimitars and transforms into the hunter. The vibranium suit of BPs isn't tanking an enchanted sword slash nor will his senses aid him in a globe of magical darkness
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Fodder may always be fodder, but beating ten enemies is always more impressive than beating one
What a strange statement. This whole argument seems to rely upon two unlike things being roughly equivalent simply because of some affinity with the word "fodder." But the expectation that 10 of one thing is 10x as impressive as 1 of a different thing is patently ridiculous. How many hand ninjas would it take to defeat 10 new york city purse-snatchers?
For the record, I agree that BP wins a feat war with Drzzt any day and should win this fight (his equipment plays a big role).
Originally posted by Dream Stuff
What a strange statement. This whole argument seems to rely upon two unlike things being roughly equivalent simply because of some affinity with the word "fodder." But the expectation that 10 of one thing is 10x as impressive as 1 of a different thing is patently ridiculous. How many hand ninjas would it take to defeat 10 new york city purse-snatchers?For the record, I agree that BP wins a feat war with Drzzt any day and should win this fight (his equipment plays a big role).
If you are going to bother responding to something, it would behoove you to read the previous posts to get an understanding the context the statement was provided in...
Sin said something like "fodder is fodder, 10 ninjas or 100 goblins, it doesn't matter." The implication being that the number of enemies is irrelevant, and the mere fact that the example involves fodder equalizes all the feats regardless of the number. I suppose there is an inherent implication that all fodder is equal in her post as well, but I was merely addressing the number element. Acknowledging a hypothetical hierarchy of fodder was not germane to the point was making.