Originally posted by Golgo13
You overrate DC sometime, Jake. 🙁 It's no stomp, especially with Blue Marvel and Sentry, not to mention Wonder Man has gotten the best of Thor, but I guess everyone gets the best of Thor. 😉
lol that first sentence is rich.
When did Simon get the best of Thor? His first appearance had him physically knock Thor over, but he was unharmed. Bendis' recent Simon had him sucker punch Thor. Unless you're recalling feats I've never seen or heard of, Simon is and always has been inferior to Thor.
Everyone on Team DC has flight and superspeed and generally better feats than Team Marvel. Hulk can make things interesting if he goes Worldbreaker and Sentry if he's at his best levels can make things interesting as well, but Hyperion and Simon and Gladiator can't compete with most of the people on DC.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
lol that first sentence is rich.When did Simon get the best of Thor? His first appearance had him physically knock Thor over, but he was unharmed. Bendis' recent Simon had him sucker punch Thor. Unless you're recalling feats I've never seen or heard of, Simon is and always has been inferior to Thor.
Everyone on Team DC has flight and superspeed and generally better feats than Team Marvel. Hulk can make things interesting if he goes Worldbreaker and Sentry if he's at his best levels can make things interesting as well, but Hyperion and Simon and Gladiator can't compete with most of the people on DC.
I can't tell the writer, or the exact time frame, but there was a run in AVENGERS during the early 90's, I wanna say shortly before the West Coast branch started, where Wonder Man was shown as at least a physical equal, I think also superior, to Thor. But it has been about a decade since I've read the comics.
Originally posted by Delta1938
I can't tell the writer, or the exact time frame, but there was a run in AVENGERS during the early 90's, I wanna say shortly before the West Coast branch started, where Wonder Man was shown as at least a physical equal, I think also superior, to Thor. But it has been about a decade since I've read the comics.
If true, then that's the definite minority and so far out of the norm for Simon as well as being his best showing ever when compared directly to Thor. It's been stated and shown - numerous times - that when push comes to shove Simon is inferior to Thor. The most telling example is when Simon tries to lift weights designed for Thor and eloquently states "I'm no Thor" before dropping them.
In any case, it would be silly to use a one time example as evidence to suggest that Simon is on that level, let alone above it.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
If true, then that's the definite minority and so far out of the norm for Simon as well as being his best showing ever when compared directly to Thor. It's been stated and shown - numerous times - that when push comes to shove Simon is inferior to Thor. The most telling example is when Simon tries to lift weights designed for Thor and eloquently states "I'm no Thor" before dropping them.In any case, it would be silly to use a one time example as evidence to suggest that Simon is on that level, let alone above it.
Wasn't disputing it being in the minority, just pointing-out there was a period where Simon wasn't the inferior, and was at least arguably the superior(well, physically at least).
Originally posted by Delta1938
Wasn't disputing it being in the minority, just pointing-out there was a period where Simon wasn't the inferior, and was at least arguably the superior(well, physically at least).
Personally have a hard time believing that and if it did happen, I have no reason why it shouldn't be considered PIS considering the overwhelming vast majority of showings contradicting a claim.
If you did have issue numbers, that would be great, though.
Originally posted by Golgo13
Didn't WM take down Thor in Bendis's run, too, or am I thinking of someone else?
He bull rushed him and knocked him over while Thor was trying to talk him down, iirc.
That in of itself in no means makes Simon >= Thor. Certainly not in the grand scheme of things when feats and overall portrayal are taken into account.
Originally posted by Golgo13
I never said Simon was equal or greater than Thor, but he can hang with say Supergirl for a while, maybe even get a split. If he's on his game, of course.
You brought up Simon getting the better of Thor, which outside of a sucker attack and knocking him over back in his villainous days - and apparently some WCA issue where he was alluded to being superior to Thor - doesn't mean much in this thread against opponents of this caliber. He can hang with Kara as in not get beaten outright right away. Kara's literally the only person I see Simon feasibly beating, and not for the majority, either.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Personally have a hard time believing that and if it did happen, I have no reason why it shouldn't be considered PIS considering the overwhelming vast majority of showings contradicting a claim.If you did have issue numbers, that would be great, though.
It was one writer's opinion for the two. If I feel up to it, I'll look for them later today, but probably won't feel up to digging through them all. It doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, I was just pointing-out there was a period you were unaware of.
Sneak attack is still a sneak attack.
Pretty telling that Simon's best showings against Thor was when he debuted as a villain (and didn't even hurt Thor) and when he was breaking down and attacked Thor who was trying to help him. Personally, given the potential of ionic energy, Simon should be top tier, but he's always been 2nd to Thor in terms of Avenger powerhouses.
Anyway, Superman, Majestic, Captain Marvel, and Black Adam can beat anyone on Team 2 for the majority, barring Sentry wigging out or something.
Originally posted by Delta1938
It was one writer's opinion for the two. If I feel up to it, I'll look for them later today, but probably won't feel up to digging through them all. It doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, I was just pointing-out there was a period you were unaware of.
It's still, if accurate, a way off base and nonsensical stance for a writer to take given their overall history among various writers. If it happened as you described, then it's canon, but canonical events and showings don't preclude things from being PIS if it is.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It's still, if accurate, a way off base and nonsensical stance for a writer to take given their overall history among various writers. If it happened as you described, then it's canon, but canonical events and showings don't preclude things from being PIS if it is.
It feels like you have the need to argue even though I never disputed it's in the minority, simply pointing-out a period you were ignorant of.
Originally posted by Delta1938
It feels like you have the need to argue even though I never disputed it's in the minority, simply pointing-out a period you were ignorant of.
Not really arguing it. Just pointing out that if you do happen to be correct - which no one has verified or not - it doesn't really matter and is a moot point, anyway.