Originally posted by CosmicComet
No. What I'm talking about is completely divergent from the idea of Superman simply taking a hit to test something or shield someone.When we have scenes like Superman being able to charge at Eiling, while being drawn as sort of blur, yet still being hit, whilst we know Batman is absolutely not that fast at all and yet will still be able to dodge the same kind of punch, we know something wrong.
Admitting that you're forcing the exclusion of completely sensible explanations serves your argument how?
Superman flying a straight line tackle can be batted down by superbricks... not shocking. Your bald-faced assumption that General Eiling was fighting Batman as hard as he was fighting Superman such that the punches he throws are exactly the same... also not shocking.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
No. We have forum rules to deal with things that are divergent from what should happen. Eliminating PIS and the characters 'fighting to their best'.Ignoring the meaning of speed feats in fights that happens in comics is due to what? That's right, a product of PIS.
Stop conflating CIS with PIS. Stop inventing feats and fighting styles. Stop pretending you can translate superspeed watching Flash eat pie as proof that Superman can throw 1,000,000,0000 punches in a second. If you just do three simple, rational things, you'd have far less issues.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Ignoring the city building feat vs supposed blue sun amp for even just a moment--since that would be getting in to another tangent--we have Superman speed feats, and then we have Orion speed feats. One person, is millions of times faster. Millions. That's far greater than the speed disparity between someone like Muhammad Ali and say George Chuvalo. And the thing is, Orion isn't even hinted to at least be on the same sort of speed level as Superman, even if he had a clear cut statement, it may suffice. But he doesn't.You don't get to ignore the meaning of something like that in a forum fight where we aren't writing stories, 'just because'. An argument such as this is simply a matter of sentiment. It doesn't 'feel right' to say Gladiator would annihilate Hulk since he's millions of times faster by feats--but I don't deal in sentiment. I deal in what is derivable objectively.
Of course you would make this sort of argument. Because it would give you the sort of leeway to actually argue for characters who have absolutely shit speed feats in the grand scheme of things vs those who have great ones. Otherwise those kinds of fights become completely obsolete. But it doesn't gel, and when inspected for consistency, the logic falls apart.
This has nothing to do with writer or poster sentimentality. Stop pretending that superspeed talking leads to superspeed blitzing.
You don't get to ignore the thousands of comics where Superman doesn't throw 1,000,000,000 punches in a second, let alone 1,000s at an opponent. Just like Thor fanboys don't get to ignore Thor not BFR'ing every single god damn opponent he faces in his comics. The important distinction: at least Thor's actually performed that numerous times against opponents.
This isn't an argument, it's a statement of unextraordinary and undeniable fact. Superman does not go around blitzing people at nanosecond speeds. Your hamfisted appeal for consistency doesn't even have a basis to begin with.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
We know, for example, that Hulk is a guy that Peter Parker is fast enough to readily dodge. Indeed, Parker has even remarked that Hulk moves in 'slow motion' to him.
Read a god damn Hulk vs Spider-Man fight and let me know just how much trouble Hulk has trying to tag or grab Spider-Man. Here, I'll spoonfeed you:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20N-S/HulkvsSpiderman04ASMAnnual3.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Stats/SavageHulkAgility17ASM120.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20N-S/HulkvsSpiderman19MarvelTeam-Up27.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Stats/SavageHulkAgility27PeterParkerSpiderman14.jpg
Originally posted by CosmicComet
How do you then justify Hulk being able to hit someone like Gladiator in a forum fight then, if Gladiator is fighting 'to his best'? You can't. Period. All that remains to be said is the whole 'in-character in play' argument, though the problems of this being obvious in that this would require you to believe that its 'in character' for someone like Gladiator to be retarded (seeing as you'd have to be to stand in place and let someone who's taking minutes to simply blink, land a blow on you), as well as the fact that Gladiator was 'in-character' when he performed his speed feats (obviously he wasn't pretending to be someone else). So sure, one can still make the argument that Hulk would beat someone like Gladiator if 'gladiator doesn't use his speed', but, what if he does? Then what? What's Hulk's answer? Nothing. Absolutely, nothing. The entire argument against the far faster character relies on it 'not feeling right' to say he could easily beat the far slower character without the latter being able to do anything about it.Suck it up. They 'fight to their best' afterall. None of the sentimental begging holds water thus.
Because we've seen Gladiator fighting at his best on-panel. And Gladiator doesn't buzz around like the Flash when fighting an enormously strong opponent that manages to surprise him with his own speed and is already on top of him like white on rice.
So deal with it. Your entire conception of comic characters fighting at their best isn't just wholly disconnected from characters fighting at their best on-panel, sometimes it's completely contradictory. You can try to deny that these characters have never fought at their best on-panel (a retarded proposition), and that these imaginary non-feats of fighting styles and fighting feats serve as some objective basis for your opinion (a retarded sentiment), but you're simply stuck in your own deluded world.
You want to rage against how comics portray characters, rage all you want. Stop pretending like your objectively deconstructing some double standard here. All you're doing is revealing your own arbitrary predilections.
